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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
06-17-2012, 12:08 AM
Tetryon should lower shield resistance rather than do actual damage.... That would make the proc much more useful and still relatively manageable to deal with. Basically disruptors proc for shields.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
06-17-2012, 02:01 AM
While reading this, A thought came to me about the Polaron option you provided..

What if instead of Crew... It reduced Power transfer rates in addition to the proc provided? That way, it would allow for the Polaron Proc to actually mean something more then it does now..

Say it provided a -1% Transfer Rate stackable up to a MAX of -50% (Requireing MULTIPLE PLAYERS) where it could only get -10% from one player, so from 5 Players it can reach -50% Transfer rate. Making only Engineers able to assist in defending against it with EPS power transfer Engineering power.

Phasers, perhaps instead of having a Proc, they simply have an Innate bonus with Target Subsystems attacks. Perhaps when Target Subsystems is used (For beams) they provide an extra -20 Subsystem power for Single beams or -40 for Dual Beams. For cannons, Dual Cannons, Dual Heavy Cannons, and Turrets, Instead of Doing a complete disable, they reduce a single subsystem by Half. So if it's at 125, it would go down to 62. A second Effect, if it hits the same target would go down to 31, but it could never go below 15 to a single subsystem. Emergency Power to Subsystem powers would actually help defend against this effect, because it would actually take that power into account, where it would be brought down by half + Emergency Power to subsystem. So, if some one's shield power is at 125, They have EPtS 1 giving +22 Shield power, they get hit by a Turret Shield Proc, it would drop their shield instead to 84.
Engineering Team would still clear this effect.

This could also give a good reason to run Target subsystem attacks and Cannons, Turrets, DHC's or DC's with Beams in some builds. And it would also still give a way to keep Phasers powerful, but no longer automatically Disable a subsystem randomly.

Also, I agree that Plasma energy weapons need a serious check where their proc is concerned. I think they should just set it so that all Plasma weapons have a chance to place the same DoT on the target, and that each plasma attack can Stack the DoTs up. Make it a max of 1 Dot Per Weapon Per player, so no more then 8 Dots from a single player. And no more then a max of 40 Dots in total. This might mean reducing the Torpedo Dot Damage, but increasing it's Kinetic Damage or Torpedo recharge time perhaps as a comphensation. And perhaps make it so that a High Yield Plasma Torpedo can give More Dots then normal if it hits, perhaps deploying 4 Dots if it hits some thing.

I like the Idea of Tetryon Weapons reducing Shield resistance. Makes sense.

Disrupters never really seemed like they needed anything themselves. They always felt like they were the more balanced of the weapons. They provided a little extra help in damage, but never crazy amounts and never buffable from what I could see.

Maybe to make up for Anti-proton weapons not having a true Proc, beyond extra Crit Severity, they should also have an Innate [Dmg] effect where they are ALWAYS the highest damageing Energy weapons at the base. This way you can pick if you want a Proc that your build might call for, or if your just an Escort looking to Pew Pew, you'd go Anti-proton.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
06-17-2012, 06:41 AM
remove procs and make do with pretty colours and sounds

I wouldn't know if and when my polarons proc anyways...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
06-17-2012, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by U.S.S.Bloodmage
Yup. haha. All it took was a couple of pvpe'rs but yah. My initial idea is FAR FROM BALANCED:p. However some subtle changes to the weapons proc's is really what would make them a lot more attractive. All in all they are balanced currently but their effects need to be tweaked.

I'd agree with Aytanhi. Phaser proc wouldn't be so overpowered if the duration of its effect was reduced to 2.5 seconds. I also agree with Husanak that the dot damage on plasma could be tweaked up. MT is right about the Polaron's. With the new system they need an update along with Antiproton's and of course the Tetryon's are barely noticeable on drain. I'd like to see them actually draining something that is visually detectable when the proc goes off.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think MT's post about the general idea of how many pvpe'rs feel put the bullseye on the overall feeling of the community when it comes to all six weapons types and their procs.

-Captain Shift-
I also think that no, and I mean _no_ weapon proc should ever buff the raw damage of a weapon, be it normal DPS addition or in form of CritD/H/Acc. I don't mean a warp plasma debuff like Plasma weapons or anything, i just mean raw DPS.

For the simple reason that in that case every1 would most likely just use those weapons and nothing else.
AP is such a weapon that basically does that. But, ofcourse we PvP'ers know that instead of AP adding +20 Severity it basically just removes another +20 Severity [mod] and basically adds a worthless [dmg] in place of it. So AP basically only adds a damage mod which can be called unnoticable.

Also the available weapon mods of AP weapons are just miserable. I think they did that on purpose. After all those weapons were invented to 'take on the borg' or whatever lol.

All in all i think we can basically invent procs without having to resort to buffing a weapons damage, the current procs of weapon do not sound bad, they are just not properly implemented.

But in all honestly all procs should have a 'slightly' noticable effect in the long run (i.e. should be noticable after a prolonged 1v1 fight perhaps?), yet shouldnt be lethal by chance. The best thing would be so that even the top players have trouble finding the optimal proc for their goals, because the weapon procs would be so diverse, and yet all have some decent effect.

That would be the ideal situation imo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
06-17-2012, 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilawpilath View Post
While reading this, A thought came to me about the Polaron option you provided..

What if instead of Crew... It reduced Power transfer rates in addition to the proc provided? That way, it would allow for the Polaron Proc to actually mean something more then it does now..

Say it provided a -1% Transfer Rate stackable up to a MAX of -50% (Requireing MULTIPLE PLAYERS) where it could only get -10% from one player, so from 5 Players it can reach -50% Transfer rate. Making only Engineers able to assist in defending against it with EPS power transfer Engineering power.

Phasers, perhaps instead of having a Proc, they simply have an Innate bonus with Target Subsystems attacks. Perhaps when Target Subsystems is used (For beams) they provide an extra -20 Subsystem power for Single beams or -40 for Dual Beams. For cannons, Dual Cannons, Dual Heavy Cannons, and Turrets, Instead of Doing a complete disable, they reduce a single subsystem by Half. So if it's at 125, it would go down to 62. A second Effect, if it hits the same target would go down to 31, but it could never go below 15 to a single subsystem. Emergency Power to Subsystem powers would actually help defend against this effect, because it would actually take that power into account, where it would be brought down by half + Emergency Power to subsystem. So, if some one's shield power is at 125, They have EPtS 1 giving +22 Shield power, they get hit by a Turret Shield Proc, it would drop their shield instead to 84.
Engineering Team would still clear this effect.

This could also give a good reason to run Target subsystem attacks and Cannons, Turrets, DHC's or DC's with Beams in some builds. And it would also still give a way to keep Phasers powerful, but no longer automatically Disable a subsystem randomly.

Also, I agree that Plasma energy weapons need a serious check where their proc is concerned. I think they should just set it so that all Plasma weapons have a chance to place the same DoT on the target, and that each plasma attack can Stack the DoTs up. Make it a max of 1 Dot Per Weapon Per player, so no more then 8 Dots from a single player. And no more then a max of 40 Dots in total. This might mean reducing the Torpedo Dot Damage, but increasing it's Kinetic Damage or Torpedo recharge time perhaps as a comphensation. And perhaps make it so that a High Yield Plasma Torpedo can give More Dots then normal if it hits, perhaps deploying 4 Dots if it hits some thing.

I like the Idea of Tetryon Weapons reducing Shield resistance. Makes sense.

Disrupters never really seemed like they needed anything themselves. They always felt like they were the more balanced of the weapons. They provided a little extra help in damage, but never crazy amounts and never buffable from what I could see.

Maybe to make up for Anti-proton weapons not having a true Proc, beyond extra Crit Severity, they should also have an Innate [Dmg] effect where they are ALWAYS the highest damageing Energy weapons at the base. This way you can pick if you want a Proc that your build might call for, or if your just an Escort looking to Pew Pew, you'd go Anti-proton.
Mhh good thinking, but I think this woul dbe too hard to implement, also because the standard EPS transfer of most people already is 200+% with some decent space trait and EPS to 9. Some even run a EPS console, would the proc really be worthwhile? Also EPS transfer is mainly situational. It would even be more of luck when the proc would kick in right when someone was transfering power.

I dont know, but good thinking. I think just tweaking the old procs and actually have some nice effect with them so we all know the procs work would be more then fine 2 me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
06-18-2012, 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkfader1988
Mhh good thinking, but I think this woul dbe too hard to implement, also because the standard EPS transfer of most people already is 200+% with some decent space trait and EPS to 9. Some even run a EPS console, would the proc really be worthwhile? Also EPS transfer is mainly situational. It would even be more of luck when the proc would kick in right when someone was transfering power.

I dont know, but good thinking. I think just tweaking the old procs and actually have some nice effect with them so we all know the procs work would be more then fine 2 me.
Could always make it so that from 5 Sources/Players it could drag some one to -200% Requireing EPS consoles to get above it. But then that might seem OP.. *Shrug*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
06-18-2012, 03:09 PM
Do any of you find the hybrid weapons to be more useful than standard Acc or Crit weapons?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18 Hybrid Weapons
06-19-2012, 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRicky View Post
Do any of you find the hybrid weapons to be more useful than standard Acc or Crit weapons?

I believe most people end up using the Hybrid weapons types for the combined proc not necessarilly for their modifiers because in general I don't believe they are that good. I'm not absoultely sure because I don't own any. I'm just trying to help.

-Captain Shift-
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
06-19-2012, 03:18 AM
So with this new system what is stopping a rainbow Tank Cruiser from using all the debuffs on a single target, making It's life miserable?

I think it's better each passive to have less of an effect and to be stack-able up to X times.
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