Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
# 21
06-22-2012, 03:57 AM
When i reached level 50 with my toon i decided to keep a few XP points back so i can fine tune later, i must admit that at the moment i haven?t even got one point in my threat control box yet. I have been thinking of allocating a few points though. I?m wondering if it?s worth doing. I can see the tactical advantage if you need to draw fire away from another player, or friendly NPC . . But equally i can see the benefit in survivability by not having any points in this Skill, although i like a good battle, i?m quite alright not having everything in the instance after me . . lol, plus i hear it does nothing in PvP apart from adding a small defence bonus.

I suppose i?m wondering if it?s worth putting a few point in the skill, or is it better to just put points elsewhere ?

I?d appreciate people?s opinions on this.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 22
06-22-2012, 04:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archived Post View Post
I ran KA space elite. I got aggro with each cubes and Donatra (she ran after me). A player told me if I got aggro it's because I'm a noob. So he said "noob noob noob" again and again while the STF is running. Getting aggro often means noob player? I thought it was due of my ship. Because when I run STF with my vo'quv I don't get aggro. With my bortasqu I always get aggro.
I agree with most everyone here. You got agro cause you were getting the AIs attention either by the Threat Control skill or pure DPS. If they were in an escort they should be thanking you for doing a great job if you were in the Bortasqu. If you are in an escort you could be "noob" for not running away to heal and let the agro cool down but if you can tank it I say stay in it just be ready to bolt so you do not hurt your team with your absence while awaiting a re-spawn.

Kudos for a job well done.

Edited to add: I never put points in Threat Control. Even on my healer builds. I can usually draw agro fine by "hugging the bear" long enough and sustaining my DPS. Still you do get a defensive bonus from that skill so it would not hurt, but I find I get more than enough of a defensive bonus from my heals when I do draw that agro and can switch of keeping my team alive to keeping myself alive. A good DPSer will know to run when they draw the agro so you can get it back.
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
They taste the same.

Last edited by piwright42; 06-22-2012 at 04:12 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 34
# 23
06-22-2012, 09:23 AM
As mentioned in thread.

The Highest DPS will generally always draw aggro even over 9 points in thread generation.

Usually the AI programing will go ,

1st person to shoot at MOB
Then Switch over time to highest DPS

If you use a combat parser to read and save your combat log during STF's , you'll generally see a good Tactical Player in an Escort will do the highest damage and can often do 1/3-1/2 of the teams total damage and they will generally always end up always with aggro.

You often see a good escort doing over 2-3 million damage and a poor sci ship sometimes as low as 100-200k , even a good sci ship pilot will struggle to do a 1/3 of the damage of a Tac escort.

I usually only use escorts for STFs on my Engineer, Science and of course Tactical as it is all about damage, any STF space can be done quicker and easier with escorts and an all escort team will complete them easiest and quickest of all.

If you use an escort build with 2 x Tac team, 2 x emergency power to shields, RSP , Hazard emitters and Transfer Shield Str and the 3 piece borg with a maco shield , you should be able to tank the Elite cubes when getting aggro and only die very rarely.

We really need a blanace pass to make science and even cruisers a bit more in line with escorts for PvE, because at the moment every space mission is easier in a decent build escort.:frown:
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,735
# 24
06-22-2012, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by covenanter View Post
We really need a blanace pass to make science and even cruisers a bit more in line with escorts for PvE, because at the moment every space mission is easier in a decent build escort.:frown:
Guess who failed to pay attention to that in the STF redesign, guess who is in charge of pressing for balance changes.


Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 25
06-22-2012, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by covenanter View Post
...as it is all about damage, any STF space can be done quicker and easier with escorts and an all escort team will complete them easiest and quickest of all.
This. And weak cruisers that want to hang 9km away from targets to do feeble DPS really annoy me.

If the Borg are ignoring you it is because you aren't worthy of notice.
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 26
06-22-2012, 10:06 AM
So last night, I had a very large run in with the most noobish group I've ever seen when it comes to agro and tanking.

Myself, Tact in a T5 Akira, the rest of the group: Sovereign (Tact), Star Cruiser (Sci), Galaxy X (Tact), Odyssey (Eng). I think to myself, ok at least one of these people will be a tank, I mean 4 cruisers? The odds of having a real tank are pretty good right?

HA!

I ended up tanking every mob because I was pushing 7k dps on almost everything. Died 4 times during ISE (Not because I just sat around thinking Im a tank in an escort, these guys had NO ability to pull aggro off of me) they screwed up the Optional (Not enough dps to reach the time limit), AND to top it all off, I had to tank the Tact cube at the end because not one of these cruisers could pull agro off of me. Even after running away to 15km once to recharge skills/shields/hull, the damned thing chased me down to under 10km range to keep shooting me, all the while the cruisers are just "DOH DOH DOH IMA GOTTA CRUIZUR!!".

Jackasses.

At least I proved you CAN tank in an Escort if you know wtf you're doing lol

[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.

Last edited by daiouvegeta2; 06-22-2012 at 10:09 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 502
# 27
06-22-2012, 10:22 AM
So after reading all these posts I don't know if I feel better or not. I am not a regular gamer and never have been, but a life long Star Trek fan and that is why I play. I have to research what terms mean all the time, for example, "agro".

I have been playing a few months now and lately have noticed that cubes chase me down and spheres gang up on me. I was actually feeling "newbish" because i felt ineffective constantly running from cubes and spheres. I can wipe a sphere out pretty fast, but 3, 4 or more with tractor beams on you is a *****.

I am a tac officer and originally preferred cruisers and still love my oddys. But lately i have been using escorts and that is when the really bad agro started.

What consoles would be best to use on an escort to help with this situation?

Thanks.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 207
# 28
06-22-2012, 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archived Post View Post
I ran KA space elite. I got aggro with each cubes and Donatra (she ran after me). A player told me if I got aggro it's because I'm a noob. So he said "noob noob noob" again and again while the STF is running. Getting aggro often means noob player? I thought it was due of my ship. Because when I run STF with my vo'quv I don't get aggro. With my bortasqu I always get aggro.
You're unfortunately always going to find someone, no matter what the MMORPG, that has the IQ of a pea plant trying to make you feel bad for having better equipment or just plain better knowledge. I haven't fully come to grips with how aggro works in STO (having only started back in January and not really paying attention, to tell the truth), but I do remember similar things happening in WoW, where the person who was suppose to be tanking wasn't keeping aggro worth crap and yet it was my fault for taking aggro. To play a game like this, you have to just put players like that on Ignore and move on. It's not worth fighting over because the fighting never stops. They just keep getting more and more stupid.

As for STO's aggro, from what I've seen so far, it's only based on DPS and the threat skills (which if you do the math, really isn't all that much difference between players). If the real "tank" of the group doesn't have anything in the threat skills, that's his/her problem, not yours. There really should be "tanking gear". From what I've been able to tell, this type of gear is only in ground equipment and is few and far between. That would truly set apart the tanks from the rest. But oh well. Just keep shooting.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 207
# 29
06-22-2012, 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daiouvegeta2 View Post
So last night, I had a very large run in with the most noobish group I've ever seen when it comes to agro and tanking.

Myself, Tact in a T5 Akira, the rest of the group: Sovereign (Tact), Star Cruiser (Sci), Galaxy X (Tact), Odyssey (Eng). I think to myself, ok at least one of these people will be a tank, I mean 4 cruisers? The odds of having a real tank are pretty good right?
No, because you don't know how they are equipped or what their skills are. I know players who have ships that do not match their career track. Don't assume that just because they have a certain kind of ship they are a certain kind of player. Not true. My wife and I both use the 2nd anniversary Odyssey (no perks). She's a science officer. I'm engineering. Still trying to get her ship to a point that it doesn't blow up when she's alone and actually does some amount of damage when we're together. But I could easily see someone taking one look and thinking "Oh look, a tank." at her ship and she's not even close to being a tank, nor should her character be one. In fact I'm pretty sure that in a few STF's I've run her character through (for equipment), people were complaining that she wasn't tanking. I simply typed in "No, I'm a science officer. I don't tank." Only one of the players was stupid enough to ask what I was "doing in a cruiser". DUH! Free Vice Admiral ship! No brainer!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 658
# 30
06-22-2012, 10:42 AM
Should look at the Sci character's specs and bridge officer setup. One of my Sci alts has the 2nd Anniversary Odyssey and its setup to be a DPSer. Going heavy on Tactical boffs means compromised self repair but I countered that just fine with range management and the 3 pc Borg set.

The science characters can damage things well if they use the sensor sweep and other debuffs correctly too. However, you do need to make sure she can produce the crucial 125 weapon power for maximum damage to be useful, so max warp core efficiency and weapon power skills.

It's ironic that my scientist in a tac prototype Oddy is used as a DPSer but that's just how I like to play. Using the absolute worst combinations (by popular accord) possible and making them work.
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.

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