Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,018
# 41
07-26-2012, 02:06 PM
dont get me wrong , its a great attempt
just the guys on this forum who want the ambassador are very enthusiastic about the ship ( which isnt neccesarily a bad thing ) so wont really settle for anything but a specific ship in game
12th Fleet
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 370
# 42
07-26-2012, 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrincy View Post
dont get me wrong , its a great attempt
just the guys on this forum who want the ambassador are very enthusiastic about the ship ( which isnt neccesarily a bad thing ) so wont really settle for anything but a specific ship in game
Well, I could make a bigger Connie from the Galaxy class.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,251
# 43
07-28-2012, 01:45 AM
Personally I would have thought the Ambassador would have been a low tier vessel you can get for free while levelling. Being this is the 25th century I would have thought the set up for the cruisers would have been this:

Lieutenant: Excelsior/Centaur (Centaur being a skin) - An hugly outdated design by this timeframe
Lieutenant Commander: Cheyenne/New Orleans/Springfield (Obviously the last two are skins to the original)
Commander: Ambassador
Captain: Galaxy
Rear Admiral: Sovereign

The Miranda and Conny Refit are just too old. I'm a huge fan of the Conny Refit, but this is the 25th century, alternatively they could've made them c-store ships like the Oberth, TOS Conny and NX. Perhaps the Conny refit being a skin to the TOS Conny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
Cryptic is sloppy. Breaking News at 11. This is what happens when there is no outline or plan and you just make up **** as you go along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shredder75 View Post
We can tell our great grandchildren, "In my day, our cloaks were so sensitive that even dialogue broke them and we couldn't change our clothes!"
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 44
07-31-2012, 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majesticmsfc View Post
Personally I would have thought the Ambassador would have been a low tier vessel you can get for free while levelling. Being this is the 25th century I would have thought the set up for the cruisers would have been this:

Lieutenant: Excelsior/Centaur (Centaur being a skin) - An hugly outdated design by this timeframe
Lieutenant Commander: Cheyenne/New Orleans/Springfield (Obviously the last two are skins to the original)
Commander: Ambassador
Captain: Galaxy
Rear Admiral: Sovereign

The Miranda and Conny Refit are just too old. I'm a huge fan of the Conny Refit, but this is the 25th century, alternatively they could've made them c-store ships like the Oberth, TOS Conny and NX. Perhaps the Conny refit being a skin to the TOS Conny.
The Sovereign isn't exactly brand-new either, so who is to say that it would be the Rear Admiral ship of choice of the 25th century? In a time of war, lack of resources, it only makes sense to work with what you have to the best of your ability, or be conquered.

This is a universe of Star Trek players & fans. Some of those ships were seen in DS9, therefore it at least makes sense to play them in-game. There is a rabid fan base that will pay real $$$ to fly the ships they want at T5. From a business standpoint, PW willingly refits/retrofits these ships to please the fans, (within reason) and make $$$ and (everyone is happy).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 227
# 45
08-03-2012, 11:30 AM
The age of the ships has nothing to do with it really. If you pay attention to the descriptions, even with the NX class they mention it's an "update" of an older design, not the old design itself. It's not like they are still putting Mirandas and Connie's off the assembly line with 100 year old hull plating and mk I Phasers from 100 years ago. Starfleet can "update" the designs with new hull plating, new tech, etc. and it is still a very viable way to go about producing ships. The old designs might be easier to mass produce and with the new tech infused would still be capable star ships. It's much easier to churn out a bunch of Constitutions or their equivalent re-fit versions(Exeter, Excaliber classes for example) with updated weapons and technology of today.

I just find it funny that people take it literally that these older ships are just ships that were sitting around in mothball that Starfleet just pulled out and said "here" to the captain, lol.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,059
# 46
08-03-2012, 03:05 PM
Well, they wouldnt be building new Mirandas, Constitutions, and other old ships, rather the shipbuilding resources would be geared towards the new classes, so the old ships would be in a reserve status or still be in service. Either way, both status' would require a major refit or for an active ship, a series of refits and overhauls to keep the ship update.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 370
# 47
08-04-2012, 05:21 PM
Personally, I wouldn't mind a Fleet Sovereign. Make it on par with the Odyssey, give it one of each console slot.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 48
08-23-2012, 06:24 PM
The Devs contradict themselves. They say an Ambassador looks too much like a Galaxy, but...they then make 72,000 Galaxy variants. Now, there's a ton of Sovreign variants. Why not just release a new ship? It's not like the ship tier system is ever going to get better without more ships being added, or a complete blow up and re-do of the current ship tier system to stop the "cookie-cutter" BS.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 960
# 49
08-23-2012, 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paragon92518 View Post
The Devs contradict themselves. They say an Ambassador looks too much like a Galaxy, but...they then make 72,000 Galaxy variants. Now, there's a ton of Sovreign variants. Why not just release a new ship?
- Without a blow-up of the system, introducing "new ships" in they will only make it worse. Before the Refit/Retrofit scheme was seemingly made standard no one knew what to do with the "Advanced Heavy Cruiser" (Excelsior) and "Advanced Science Vessel" (Nebula), and where they slotted in with regards to existing ship classes. And then they went and gave them "Retrofit" versions, confusing the matter even further. Some folks still don't know what the difference is.

-These very forums (well, the ones before them anyway) blew up because without crunching the numbers themselves no one could decide whether to spend money on them because they didn't clearly fill a niche (besides the "looks like an Excelsior/Nebula" niche). If it just gets thrown out there, the Ambassador risks having the same problem.

-We know Retrofit ships make sense because they're endgame upgrades of mid and earlygame ships. You want to use your Defiant in an STF, get yourself a Tac-Retro, and so on. Refits however now make sense because they "fit" together with a ship and role you already know. The Regent makes sense because it's new clothes and gimmicks for Sovereign you know and love. The Venture makes sense (flaws aside) because it's a new skin and gimmick (THE gimmick you might say) for your Galaxy. And so on.

-On to new ships. Ever since the Nebula and Excelsior Cryptic has been fairly circumspect about introducing new ships that don't fit the existing categories - at least on the Fed side. New ships have either been truly "special", like lockbox ships or Odysseys, or something fairly "alien", like the D'Kyr and Atrox. The Atrox is especially "alien" as it's the only true Feds carrier. The Armitage is actually a Retrofit of the Akira rather than an entirely new class of ship, and that's the way Cryptic treats it (since it can use existing Heavy Escort parts).

-With the above in mind, notice that a new ship will seem much less valuable compared to a Refit or even a Retrofit, unless a lot is done to differentiate it from the existing "free" tiers as well. The Ambassador doesn't look very "alien", and isn't as iconic as the Nebula or the Excelsior, so unless it's somehow truly different in terms of play/build possibilities from existing ships or has some incredible gimmicks, most people will buy it just for the Ambassador skin, and that's frankly not enough. Even the Regent, which is just barely different from a standard Assault Cruiser, carries more "value" because I have access to the other Sovereign skins and parts to mix and match when I get bored.

Conclusion: Assuming the licensing deals are finally worked out and assuming that Cryptic/PWE want to charge 2500z for it, the only way the Ambassador will, as a "new ship" (presumably T5) match existing value propositions is to:

A. Have at least 1 available costume option besides the Ambassador itself, to match the bare minimum given by the Nebula/Excelsior Retrofits.

B. Have some totally bitchin' gimmicks that are either native, non-console abilities (like the Excelsior's transwarp) or some cool universal consoles and/or weapons.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 786
# 50
08-24-2012, 09:48 PM
BTW if anyone wants to lay to rest what the Ambassador class is, Data states in Conspiracy, "the third ship is coming into range, Ambassador class, Heavy Cruiser, USS Horatio."

Bring her on. and put a Hellbore launcher on her
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