Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 272
# 51
08-25-2012, 02:00 AM
IF the Ambassador class makes into the game I hope there will be an option to set a skin based on Probert design.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 175
# 52
08-25-2012, 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjumetley View Post
IF the Ambassador class makes into the game I hope there will be an option to set a skin based on Probert design.
Yeah that was a nice design, they could use the Probert design and call it a "retro-fit" and make it a battle cruiser
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 53
# 53
08-25-2012, 07:01 AM
I have a theory where all these old ships would be coming from.

Surplus depot Z-15
Starfleet don't scrap old ships, they just strip all the reusable bits off then depressurise the hull (stops the insides corroding) and leave them in deep space depots. In time of war, when they're loosing a lot of ships, it's faster to just go pick up and hulks that are still sound, refit them with new components than to build an entire new ship from the keel up.

The connies and excelsiors are probably decommisioned ships rebuilt in this way to make up the numbers needed in starfleet now they suddenly have a war on multiple fronts developing.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,052
# 54
08-25-2012, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keppabar42 View Post
I have a theory where all these old ships would be coming from.

Surplus depot Z-15
Starfleet don't scrap old ships, they just strip all the reusable bits off then depressurise the hull (stops the insides corroding) and leave them in deep space depots. In time of war, when they're loosing a lot of ships, it's faster to just go pick up and hulks that are still sound, refit them with new components than to build an entire new ship from the keel up.

The connies and excelsiors are probably decommisioned ships rebuilt in this way to make up the numbers needed in starfleet now they suddenly have a war on multiple fronts developing.
Actually the reverse is true as far as the historic example of WW1 era warships beinge refitted for the WW2 era is concerned.
It took about 2-3 years to build and commission a battleship/battlecruiser but it took about 3-4 years to refit it.
And it was only done because naval treaties prevented new construction and forced these refits as the next best solution.

So of course the question is how old a ship like the Connie has to be for it to make any actual sense to refit it after it's been collecting dust for so long.
If a ship is refitted in small increments over its service life it at least makes sense since only bits and pieces are exchanged instead of cutting half the ship apart to make it spaceworthy and up to date again.

Last edited by misterde3; 08-25-2012 at 07:18 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,242
# 55
08-25-2012, 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keppabar42 View Post
The connies and excelsiors are probably decommisioned ships rebuilt in this way to make up the numbers needed in starfleet now they suddenly have a war on multiple fronts developing.
Within STO continuity the NX, Connie, and Oberth are all "replica" ships - 25th Century ships designed to look like old models. The Excelsior would be the Lakota Refits used in DS9 - though in this time period they should be at the ends of even their Refit life cycle. Ultimately, though, they're just in the game to make the player's happy. There's no consistency in STO, just like there was none in the various Trek series.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 56 Think so...
08-26-2012, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjumetley View Post
IF the Ambassador class makes into the game I hope there will be an option to set a skin based on Probert design.
I could be mistaken, however, I think it was mentioned that the Probert skin would be an additional feature with the TNG Yesterday's Enterprise version.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 57
08-26-2012, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Actually the reverse is true as far as the historic example of WW1 era warships beinge refitted for the WW2 era is concerned.
It took about 2-3 years to build and commission a battleship/battlecruiser but it took about 3-4 years to refit it.
And it was only done because naval treaties prevented new construction and forced these refits as the next best solution.

So of course the question is how old a ship like the Connie has to be for it to make any actual sense to refit it after it's been collecting dust for so long.
If a ship is refitted in small increments over its service life it at least makes sense since only bits and pieces are exchanged instead of cutting half the ship apart to make it space worthy and up to date again.
I can see the point trying to be made, however.. WW1 and WW2 ships were for use in water or air wouldn't necessarily apply. They deal with gravity, the tug on them from the earth, not to mention the vast oceans or wind, and aerodynamics of how well they function. Not much of this is really applicable in outer space. Besides which, they weren't made for space travel! The materials used and quality of it is more important to how it will stand up to newer ships. Anything is possible depending on situations, what the individual wants to do, desperation, how much time, energy, resources they have, etc. Once the question of how to increase the power source is answered, then you simply begin the work of enhancing the ship. It's a pretty simple process. And here's an example: the Mustang. Newer versions look like older vintage ones, BUT if older models were so inferior why would ford have begun using old schematics to build a new car? The reason is because there was a desire by it from individuals so they simply started producing them. Any ship can be reproduced from an old one and designed with better materials OR, you can gut one and re-fit it from the ground up. Either way, the end results are similar.

And for the love of God...please stop with these military comparisons comparing planes and "sea" ships with star ships. It's NOT apples and oranges! Was voyager II designed to travel at warp speed? Imagine this....which is harder to do....make voyager II have Warp capability...OR...installing a holodeck on an Excelsior class ship? The point is, one ship the "sea ship" by comparison Voyager II was not in any way designed to have warp speed! But....a holodeck could be installed into an area on an Excelsior ship without having to replace the ship itself with another one. Hopefully this analogy puts to rest all these damnnnn military comparisons about how that's "just not possible"!

It takes a great mind to build a space ship either at JPL, NASA, or privately. Brilliant men and women from the best schools in the country are chosen to build them. Last time I checked this was a Game built off technology that doesn't exist! Therefore, I'm so fking sick of someone who does NOT have an Engineering Degree from MIT or some other school saying "it's just not possible". Enough already!

Last edited by paragon92518; 08-26-2012 at 10:46 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,159
# 58
08-26-2012, 10:53 AM
Its a game, and games are to have fun with. So what I want to use Constitution Class to fly in and take on Bortas. Maybe someone wants to fly around in the Phoenix for all I care. Its a game and its to have fun with what you like to do. If someone wants to be in the Phoenix fighting along side your tricked out Odyssey. I don't see it killing your game play over on looks. As long they can bring it to the game. Comparing a fantasy game to real life stuff. This is nuts.

Once the Ambassador comes out, you better believe it. That is what you see me in most of the time. We all have different tastes.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,052
# 59
08-26-2012, 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmallm View Post
Its a game, and games are to have fun with. So what I want to use Constitution Class to fly in and take on Bortas. Maybe someone wants to fly around in the Phoenix for all I care. Its a game and its to have fun with what you like to do. If someone wants to be in the Phoenix fighting along side your tricked out Odyssey. I don't see it killing your game play over on looks. As long they can bring it to the game. Comparing a fantasy game to real life stuff. This is nuts.

Once the Ambassador comes out, you better believe it. That is what you see me in most of the time. We all have different tastes.
Well, first off this is science fiction.
And as I recall SF, unlike fantasy, it is something that is based on realty and extrapolates from there.
That's what I did.
I'm sorry of that offends you.
So, to me at leats, it makes sense for a ship that's been in cotinuous service, like the Ambassador class, to be quickly brought up to speed since she's been refitted time and again and as close to up to date as possible.
It makes little sense for a ship class that has been out of service for over 100 years.
Of course it's going to take longer.
Unless it's some kind of reverse logic to be applied here, the older a ship is the easier it it to install new tech.

But hey, I'm just a Systems Engineer who got lectures from one of the guys who built the Spacelab, Dr. Ottemeyer so what do I know?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,159
# 60
08-26-2012, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Well, first off this is science fiction.
And as I recall SF, unlike fantasy, it is something that is based on realty and extrapolates from there.
That's what I did.
I'm sorry of that offends you.
So, to me at leats, it makes sense for a ship that's been in cotinuous service, like the Ambassador class, to be quickly brought up to speed since she's been refitted time and again and as close to up to date as possible.
It makes little sense for a ship class that has been out of service for over 100 years.
Of course it's going to take longer.
Unless it's some kind of reverse logic to be applied here, the older a ship is the easier it it to install new tech.

But hey, I'm just a Systems Engineer who got lectures from one of the guys who built the Spacelab, Dr. Ottemeyer so what do I know?
It didn't offend me at all. I know in real life each thing has a life span. Its a prototype, production, and end of production. Then you move on to a new design. Ships, planes, trucks, what ever. They all have it. You can only upgrade a certain design for so long.

But as for this being a game, why go there? You can do what you want in a game. You are making it fun for anyone. IF they stuck with the time line they created in the game only year 24??. And used what they had for that time period. I would get really bored and quit playing. Since it would be mostly new ships, outfits, etc that never was on the TV or movies. I'm glad they went out of the box to allow you to do what you want. My Fed ship's crew don't wear the outfits for the time period. I think those "current" outfits look ugly. Same goes with some of these "current" ships. So I enjoy it playing with the stuff I saw on TV or movies. Granted if they kept doing movies or shows into this time.

Some will say its all in books, well those are very loose. I read some of the books and hated them. Mainly cause they was just too far fetched to even be close to real.

Lets say they decided to bring back the old ship like the Constitution. Some Admiral wants one. Then they build it with all the modern stuff from the frame, hull, engines etc. Then it will be new. Kinda like what they did the with Ford Mustang, Dodge Challenger, etc. It will be a retro fit.

Last edited by farmallm; 08-26-2012 at 12:00 PM.
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