Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 399
# 21
06-23-2012, 08:51 AM
Roll Need on everything is "common sense". Not that I like that much, but it is a result of the interwebz itself. You don't know the guys, so you can be selfish and arrogant without having the risk of getting to know their fist at close range.
This results in a lot of peeps who just roll selfish, which leads to the lesser selfish to roll need as well, because they say: why the selfish guy only? unfair, I roll, too.
Which then leads to the "honorable" to roll Need as well, leaving the system ad absurdum.
The Greed-button only has one purpose: Clearing lockboxes of the map (and discard later).

No wonder several MMOs startet to implement lootrules based on class/role, or restrict them right off the bat to some.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 43
# 22
06-23-2012, 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by outllaw View Post
a?buse
tr.v. a?bused, a?bus?ing, a?bus?es
1. To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
2. To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
3. To force sexual activity on; **** or molest.
4. To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.
5. Obsolete To deceive or trick.

Words, I suggest learning the meaning of them before using them to describe things.

1. Pressing an available option to everyone is not "abuse". It is proper use of the button
2. No harm or injury comes from the non-existent maltreatment
3. Last I checked there were no sexual implications from pressing "Need, Greed, or Pass"
4. No words are exchanged between players
5. It's not deceptive since its there for everyone

Basically in a nutshell. Press "Need" or "Pass" in the future. Pressing greed then going to the forums of all places because someone didn't play your way and choose to play within the system set guidelines is going to get you nothing but laughed at.
Congratulations on finding the correct definition of what you trying to propagate (the first one in the given context). Now you have narrowed it down to to proper use of a wrong button. Please go ahead.

Last edited by woril; 06-23-2012 at 01:50 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 23
06-23-2012, 03:54 PM
A Need/Greed/Pass only serves one purpose: demonstrate poor understanding of economics.

Obtaining something "to use it" or "to sell it" is the same in terms of economy.

Taking the earlier example of not obtaining a Plasma console despite being the only Plasma user: so what? The individual that got it might've put it on the Exchange and bought a Tetryon console for his Tetryon weapons. Same end result.

I'm not saying everyone should Need everything, but rather that "Lot" or "Pass" would be a more logical system. Need it, you lot; don't need it, you pass.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 24
06-23-2012, 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woril View Post
Congratulations on finding the correct definition of what you trying to propagate (the first one in the given context). Now you have narrowed it down to to proper use of a wrong button. Please go ahead.
When there are 3 buttons present, and you click one of them... there is no "wrong" way to click it. Since the button is there for players to choose to press, there is no "wrong" choice. Unless you meant to press "Need" and accidentally pressed "Greed", then you would have done the wrong thing. That however is a PEBKAC. I think the moral of this whole ordeal is, you just don't like the random chance of loot rolls and want everything for yourself. Its ok, and quite understandable, however the easiest solution to this problem for you is to simply press "Need". No further commentary form you is really required on this matter. My solution to this problem is the simplest one, the more complex would be to get the entire player to want to share things equally, or the devs to completely redo the entire loot roll mechanic. I'm in favor of Want/Pass, but until then the Need button will suffice.

If I truly lacked empathy or a conscience I would not take time out of my day to help someone who had a less fortunate education than myself correct their gross misunderstanding of words in the English language.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 161
# 25
06-23-2012, 04:28 PM
The system doesn't make sense because 99% of the loot is either junk or something everyone needs. It would be different if this was WoW and there were really class-specific items, but it is not. If it is a rare Mk XII console or some kind of borg salvage, everyone needs it. If not, it is junk. And if you really "need" a Mk XI green item because it is better than what you have, please quit the STF and come back once you are properly kitted.

Change it to roll/pass.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 43
# 26
06-24-2012, 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by outllaw View Post
When there are 3 buttons present, and you click one of them... there is no "wrong" way to click it. Since the button is there for players to choose to press, there is no "wrong" choice. Unless you meant to press "Need" and accidentally pressed "Greed", then you would have done the wrong thing. That however is a PEBKAC. I think the moral of this whole ordeal is, you just don't like the random chance of loot rolls and want everything for yourself. Its ok, and quite understandable, however the easiest solution to this problem for you is to simply press "Need". No further commentary form you is really required on this matter. My solution to this problem is the simplest one, the more complex would be to get the entire player to want to share things equally, or the devs to completely redo the entire loot roll mechanic. I'm in favor of Want/Pass, but until then the Need button will suffice.
The fact is that "Need/Greed/Pass" system is in place. Its purpose is diffenrent from what you are trying to propagate in your ignorance. This is the case in every MMO applying it. Always. Period.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 180
# 27
06-24-2012, 03:27 AM
Everyone potentially can use everything that drops. So there's no way for the game engine to programmatically limit need to the "right" people. edit: as lordcorrino pointed out already

So when loot drops, look what your teammates are doing. If they're just needing, need if you want a chance at any of it.


I still tend to greed/pass on most things anyway, but *shrug*. If I ever want to make any money on drops that sure doesn't get me anywhere.
_______
equal parts cynical and helpful
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 28
06-24-2012, 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woril View Post
The fact is that "Need/Greed/Pass" system is in place. Its purpose is diffenrent from what you are trying to propagate in your ignorance. This is the case in every MMO applying it. Always. Period.
Tell me exactally why I do not need a MK XI green "insert whatever here". Give me an absolutely valid argument as to why I would not need said item (or the ec value of it that could be attained from selling it) more than the next guy. Sure my Armitage is MK XII'ed out with AP and all MK XII purple consoles for eng and tac (but i have 11 other ships in the hanger and a dozen more alts). But tell me why I don't need that MK XI green drop. Since you obviously know every single other players needs better than they do.

If I truly lacked empathy or a conscience I would not take time out of my day to help someone who had a less fortunate education than myself correct their gross misunderstanding of words in the English language.

Last edited by outllaw; 06-24-2012 at 05:18 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 43
# 29
06-24-2012, 05:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by outllaw View Post
Tell me exactally why I do not need a MK XI green "insert whatever here". Give me an absolutely valid argument as to why I would not need said item (or the ec value of it that could be attained from selling it) more than the next guy. Sure my Armitage is MK XII'ed out with AP and all MK XII purple consoles for eng and tac (but i have 11 other ships in the hanger and a dozen more alts). But tell me why I don't need that MK XI green drop. Since you obviously know every single other players needs better than they do.
The reason is given in the post, which has caused you to pop up into this thread, namely this one: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=12

It may shock you, but your needs are not more important than the needs of the "other guy", who rolls greed greed as intended in opposition to you.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 30
06-24-2012, 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woril View Post
The reason is given in the post, which has caused you to pop up into this thread, namely this one: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=12

And this is also why your needs are not more important than the needs of the "other guy", who rolls greed greed as intended in opposition to you.
Thank you for failing to prove the point I was directly making, referencing something said earlier was not what you were asked to do, nor was the point you were making back then even correct. Since my ship is obviously properly equipped, and we already established that it is not abusing the system since the system is designed to be operated in the way it is being operated in.

I do my part in contributing to the STF, the funding goes towards other characters being able to do theirs correctly out of the gate. I do not go in unprepared at any time. My needs are more important than someone elses if they are not in my Fleet because their capabilities do not benefit my rewards in the long run. 99% of the time I run into said individual once and then never see them again. Everyone should have the same "need" for the value, that is the point of doing Elite STFs since they are certainly not for the story content. Failure to click the same button as 4 other people in an STF is not a crisis on my end, nor are they being cheated out of anything since they in fact made their choice. Loot isn't even looked at when the window pops up it is a secondary response to click the top most button to clear it from the screen in as little time as possible, sitting there debating what to choose based on each individual item is a time waste in the middle of an STF. I'm sure in your little Utopian fantasy everyone would stop, have an in-depth discussion as to who needs said item and then that person would receive it. This is an MMO, and oddly enough the same thing happens in-between queues for us. Sure the pubbie is left out of the equation but the loot if actually needed goes to whoever it works for their current build plans for, if not the credits go towards something they will need or the fleet bank.

You are quite happily beating a dead targ here hoping for people to think that your way is the "proper" way. There is simply no right or wrong in this matter. You can either get a fair shot at getting paid out, or you can forfeit that chance and then complain when other people did not follow you. Frankly I've paid entirely too much attention to this thread so this will be my final post on the matter. Until they decide to do away with the 3 way system and put in a Roll / Pass or Want / Pass, myself and all fleet members will continue to take the simple and most efficient route by rolling "Need" on everything.

If I truly lacked empathy or a conscience I would not take time out of my day to help someone who had a less fortunate education than myself correct their gross misunderstanding of words in the English language.

Last edited by outllaw; 06-24-2012 at 05:56 AM.
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