Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,624
# 11
06-21-2012, 02:38 PM
Here's a little business lesson.

All MMOs suffer from attrition. That's a fact. Whether it be due to players moving on to other MMOs, stopping gaming altogether, or even dying is irrelevant. The only way a game can survive is to attract new players, the minimum number, of course, being equal to those that leave.

F2P is a really good method of capturing new market share. It enables people to engage in the game without having to lay down any form of investment. The bane of F2P, however, is that people can play and leave, thus using resources without ever having paid a cent.

Most new people are more likely to reserve their spending until they're sure that they wish to engage in the game for a set period of time. The length of this period is not really definable. It's a non-consciously determined amount of time that varies from player to player. Once they decide they're going to stay, at least 'for a while', they are more likely to spend.

What keeps players? Engaging storylines, fun action, a sense of progression and accessibility. When you have a game where the PvP is unaccessible, except to an elite group, well then you're starting to limit your potential market, after all, PvP is one of the main features of any MMO. You're going to have people who discover the game and relish the thought of PvP in the Star Trek universe only to be slapped down so hard that it leaves a sour taste in their mouth.

Can you understand how that experience may sour a new player's opinion of the game enough that they may decide to a) not invest in the game, or b) leave?

Let's equate this to sport. Many many moons ago I played very high level hockey in Australia. Not good enough to be international grade, but very high level. If people who were interested in hockey had to play their first game against players of my caliber, well, they never would have come back. Instead, they compete in levels more akin to their skill so they can learn, progress and achieve.

Until STO PvP has this, then any new player looking in to the game will count PvP as a detractor.

Why do you think there are motions to fix PvP? Companies don't spend money fixing things unless they're broken.

As an aside, I love all things Trek, and I don't appreciate game-play that revolves around repeating the same skill time and again to fix or survive any scenario. It's not Trek, and the game should have no place for it. Can you imagine how boring the shows would have been if everything revolved around the same skills which appeared every episode? "We're being pursued, Spock? Well then, let's just vent warp plasma again. Worked the last 248 times!!!" "The Romulans are attacking us!! Quick, Mr Data. Reverse shield polarity over and over. That'll ensure our survival!!" How utterly droll.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 12
06-21-2012, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Why do you think there are motions to fix PvP? Companies don't spend money fixing things unless they're broken.
Because for 2 years we've had the same maps, same modes, same skills, same bugs, and really the same old useful ships (the new Akira and Odyssey being the exceptions) for the last two years, completely unchanging.

Yeah, if there wasn't a call to fix that, I'd probably crap myself at the sheer stupidity of my audience.

That said, someone who's only pvp'd once really has no place trying to tell me about it. I promise, I know a little more on the subject than you do. Your words are a bit invalid.

The problems PvP faces (and yes, there are problems, I do not deny that - just not what you claim they are) are better known to the PvP audience than you.

Someone from outside trying to fix it is no different than an idiot on a high horse telling me to go 6,000 miles away and kill innocent people in the Middle East because the USA and UK from the outside thought they could live their lives "better".

That aside, I do not PvP to role play telling Spock to perform a function. Sorry. I don't play a Star Trek game one-handed because I'm whacking off trying to imagine myself in a "real life" Captain chair. I play one-handed because I took shrapnel which destroyed my left arm while deployed.

I PvP because I enjoy a competitive game. I enjoy a challenge. I enjoy having to actually think about what I'm doing over spamming the space bar (or in many STFs, having my 5 year old son do it while I'm on the other monitor watching Netflix). I particularly enjoy the naval combat aspect of this game's PvP, because it adds an element of strategic and tactical depth not present in many other environments (an element you advocate removing).

Many, if not most, PvPers share these sentiments.

Not yours.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,624
# 13
06-21-2012, 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quiscustodiet View Post
Now, back to the original question, a few numbers (all Torpedo Launchers below are Mk XII White):

Photon DPV against Hull: 2980
Photon DPS against Hull: 458.46
Photon DPV against Shields: 298
Photon DPS against Shields: 45.84

Quantum DPV against Hull: 3313
Quantum DPS against Hull: 389.76
Quantum DPV against Shields: 331
Quantum DPS against Shields: 38.98

Transphasic DPV against Hull: 2155
Transphasic DPS against Hull: 205.24
Transphasic DPV against Shields: 431
Transphasic DPS against Shields: 41.05
Wow, awesome stats, thank you!!

The ship I've built is pretty much firing one torpedo per second of all types. I guess that makes the DPV = DPS.

That being the case, photons are out of the question. It comes down to having 1200 more damage to the hull (quantum over transphasic) or 100 more damage when shielded (transphasic over quantum). That would mean that one quantum to the hull equates to the extra damage done by 12 transphasics when shields are up.

Quantums all the way, it seems. I really hope the buff they give to transphasics makes them a seriously considerable option.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
# 14
06-21-2012, 03:08 PM
I left 2 years ago and just returned, back then as a Fed in a escort, it was game start, fly around with your team for 3 minutes, then respawn because the entire klingon force volley fired you from cloak. then get chained killed by a pair of klingons cloaked near your spawn. Does that still happen?
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,624
# 15
06-21-2012, 03:14 PM
Yeah, that happened to me too.

Hey, hakaishinlegion, surely getting this done to you would attract new players?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 16
06-21-2012, 03:15 PM
In my experience, when my rear end is repeatedly handed to me, asking the person 'Wow! So how the heck did you pull that off?', they will generally tell me. And give me tips on how to deal with it or replicate it.

The magic to doing so? Treating it like a friendly game.

Ranting about how something is OP or broken, not so much.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 17
06-21-2012, 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Let's equate this to sport. Many many moons ago I played very high level hockey in Australia. Not good enough to be international grade, but very high level. If people who were interested in hockey had to play their first game against players of my caliber, well, they never would have come back. Instead, they compete in levels more akin to their skill so they can learn, progress and achieve.
Problem #1: A lot of folks, particularly Starfleet, don't start PvPing until they hit near max or max level.
This is like skipping all the lower competitions and expecting to do well because they practiced for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Why do you think there are motions to fix PvP? Companies don't spend money fixing things unless they're broken.
Most folks asking for PvP to be fixed are avid PvPers. Most other people are happy doing their own thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
As an aside, I love all things Trek, and I don't appreciate game-play that revolves around repeating the same skill time and again to fix or survive any scenario. It's not Trek, and the game should have no place for it.
It's also not, generally, how STO PvP works. You are either ignoring or missing the bit about tactics and situational awareness.

A GOOD PvPer changes what skills she is using in response to changing circumstances. A GREAT PvPer chances BOFFs and equipment to handle different circumstances and tailors her play.

(I'm only good -- anything more than a few gear changes or moving seats around for STF vs. PvP is a bit beyond me)

Also, PvP in STO depends HIGHLY on teamwork. I'd happily field a team of coordinated, experienced PvPers who are used to how one another works all in white MK X gear with no special consoles against a PUG in purple MK XII.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 18
06-21-2012, 04:07 PM
OP, how are you firing a Torpedo every second of any kind?
To my knowledge the only way to reduce Torpedo recast is Projectile DOFFs:
3 of them give:
- 51.2% chance per tube not to reduce recast.
- 38.4% chance to reduce it once.
- 9.6% chance to reduce it twice.
- .8% chance to reduce it thrice.

How many tubes are you using?


Ignoring the PvP trolls.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 19
06-21-2012, 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Yeah, that happened to me too.

Hey, hakaishinlegion, surely getting this done to you would attract new players?
I actually remember when I first started, far worse happened to me.

Remember, I stated you do not improve without failure.

That said, I've failed a LOT in my time.

And I've gotten a LOT better.

I don't quit after I see something I don't like. I don't quit after losing once. I don't quit because I think something is broken.

I fail. I look at what happened. If I can, I'll talk to who beat me and find out what I did wrong, and what they did right. I'll learn. I'll practice. I'll communicate.

I'll improve.

In 2 years, you can bet I've lost a number of matches. I've no shame in admitting that. Some losses were so bad that I didn't feel like ever touching the game at all again.

But I did.

And I'm better for it.

Interesting you make such a comment to try to make some snide jab at me... fact of the matter is that it only notates what makes me a good PvPer, in my ability to learn.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,624
# 20
06-21-2012, 07:20 PM
I'm getting a torpedo every second by loading 3 tubes up front with three purple doffs. I use quantums as when you reduce the reload by 5 seconds you're left with a 3.5 second reload. 3 seconds of this is absorbed by the global cooldown of the 3 tubes and the 0.5 seconds seems to disappear as firing a torpedo is never an instantaneous effect.

If you want to use transphasics, you have to use the rapid reloads as they also have an 8.5 second reload. Any longer and you have to have more than one doff trigger to keep the torps rolling.

Granted, there are times when you're unlucky and you don't get a doff trigger, but seeing as every tube has three doff rolls every time a torpedo is fired, you're betting on 1 in 6 rolls hitting before its that torpedo's turn again.
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