Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 51
# 21
06-22-2012, 04:51 PM
The sheer volume of chron flying around coupled with the lack of a counter.

Seriously you could probably just swap the chrons on pets for "anything" have it do wonders.

The chron effect itself is just fine, the lack of a counter wasn't an issue until the chron volume of fire was dramatically increased.

With that in mind the fix should be two fold. Allow something to counter it, and take chrons off pets. This reduces the volume of fire drastically and allows a counter should it ever be a large problem again/later.

Consider this is from someone actively using pets with chrons.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,483
# 22
06-22-2012, 04:55 PM
I'd rather see a ship automatically gain immunity over time to being affected by the debuff than add the clearing of it to the already polluted list of clearing powers.

Perhaps a new feature could be added in battle, much like a minigame with a far smaller UI window, that one could manually re-modulate their ship's shield frequency to the "temporal variance of chroniton torpedoes" and invert the deflector array.
You could remodulate every 60 seconds - trying to find the right frequency (say the ui element functioned a little like Skyrim/Fallout's lockpick UI - although more forgiving).

Quote:
In another version of this timeline, Lieutenant Commander Tuvok and Seven of Nine were able to develop temporal shielding which effectively protected Voyager from the Krenim's chroniton torpedoes.This was accomplished by matching Voyager's shields to the temporal variance of the torpedoes, and matching the deflector array to the inverse of that variance. This timeline later negated when the Krenim weapon ship was erased from history, reversing all of the damage it had caused to the timeline from history. (VOY: "Year of Hell", "Year of Hell, Part II")
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Chroniton_torpedo
nynik | Join Date: Dec 2009
<Dev> Oaks@dstahl: *checks for CBS listening devices in the office*

Last edited by nynik; 06-22-2012 at 04:57 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,125
# 23
06-22-2012, 04:59 PM
yeah borticus, just get us a counter for em, or at least stop the stacking.

both would be too much maybe. idunno.

gl with your tests and info gathering.

have fun kill bad guys

horizon
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,141
# 24
06-22-2012, 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nynik View Post

Perhaps a new feature could be added in battle, much like a minigame with a far smaller UI window, that one could manually re-modulate their ship's shield frequency to the "temporal variance of chroniton torpedoes" and invert the deflector array.
You could remodulate every 60 seconds - trying to find the right frequency (say the ui element functioned a little like Skyrim/Fallout's lockpick UI - although more forgiving).
It's a nifty idea but what your saying is that you want people to do minigames while they're under attack?
Man is a gaming animal. He must always be trying to get the better in something or other.
Warning, this poster tends to talk nonsensically when caffine levels fall below 80%.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 25
06-22-2012, 05:21 PM
Thaks for showing some love Borticus! If you balance one ability every week, you will make STO PvP a lot better in a short time! (relatively speaking) I'm just overjoyed that someone is doing something for pvp!



Quote:
Originally Posted by defalus View Post
It's a nifty idea but what your saying is that you want people to do minigames while they're under attack?

This sounds like a nightmare! I'm having serious trouple even getting one ability to activate when I'm focused (like evasive or eng batt)... I click, it greys out, it greys off, I click, it greyes out, it greys off...etc. etc.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 558
# 26 Chroniton procs
06-22-2012, 05:30 PM
Nothing left to say but thank you. Two carriers with runabout pets can keep a ship in perma-chroniton proc the whole gae....and people are doing just that constantly.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,769
# 27
06-22-2012, 05:52 PM
They lack a reliable, or existant, counter that a player can choose to use in a build.

Several ingame abilites exist that could be expanded to be this counter. The the only issue with Chroni's is on the heads of those whom do not use the counter.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 51
# 28
06-22-2012, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneerdtb View Post
Nothing left to say but thank you. Two carriers with runabout pets can keep a ship in perma-chroniton proc the whole gae....and people are doing just that constantly.
Orion Interceptors, strictly better at, blah blah blah, I feel like a broken record when it comes to this
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,178
# 29
06-22-2012, 06:24 PM
huh maybe hav TSS counter it? that skill is energy from the deflector being transferred to shields, so it could kind of be doing what they did in that voyager episode
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 464
# 30
06-22-2012, 06:27 PM
Hi,

In my opinion canon is the core mechanic that has caused this; please just take the current Chroniton torpedo and rename every version of it in game or change it completely. Then create a new canon Chroniton torpedo, and have it do what it did in Voyager.

Please read this thread which Heretic responded to, it was posted earlier this year and some great ideas were presented, then it was buried and the subject once again forgotten...

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=257517

Here's a quote from the thread; which contains relevant info regarding Chroniton torps...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alecto View Post
I find it very difficult to imagine how every major race in the Alpha and Beta Quadrant (even the Borg) could almost completely adapt to multiple phased states of BOOM by being able to come up with a defensive measure allowing them to protect their ships from explosions de-phasing within their ships hull. There's no way they could adapt their shields to protect against multiple phased states... Not even within 30 years. The Feds still know very little about phased tech, even though they have been more successful than the Romulans... Creating a weapon is much easier than creating a defence, as they say destroying life is much easier than creating life.

I can however imagine that they adapted by being able to come up with a defensive measure allowing them to protect their ships from the initial subspace compression pulse occurring at the moment of impact by possibly disabling the instrumentation aboard the torpedo mid flight, but that's going into an awful lot of complexity which STO does not.

Perhaps if you could phase your ship (TNG episode "The Pegasus") or use the Subspace Field Modulator your ship would become immune to the effects of the Transphasic tech.

Anyway...

Even if these torps were canon in game, they wouldn't appear to be as destructive as they did in the TV show because as you've stated; it's not just the Borg who adapt, but the torps would still be more powerful than a 70's quantum torpedo by approximately 33.3% at least, not weaker; and they do more damage because of the tech behind how they go boom... Why more damage? Because they were made after Quantums and 2 of these torps vs a 2378 Borg Cube bypassing shields via the tech make cube go boom, simple.

As we know in game this is balanced like this:

Low DMG vs fast CD = Phtons for example

High DMG vs slow CD = Quantums for example

Not to mention that these torps were developed sometime between 2378 and 2404, more likely towards 2404. In other words they should be better than Quantums because Quantums are outdated (Feds started using them around 2371), just like Photons (Feds started using them around 2233) were outdated by Quantums. If people can't accept this well, refer to this video. :p

What we know:
  • Hard canon

    These torps are transphasic and have a big boom vs most known ships as of 2378.

  • Soft canon

    According to the Pocket Books novel "Greater than the Sum"...



    What this means...

    1. The torp like most others (except Chroniton torpedoes) detonates upon shield impact.

    2. When it detonates it generates a subspace compression pusle; which expands faster than the explosion.

    3. The pulse creates multiple phased states around the torpedo as it is exploding.

    4. This makes it possible for the explosion in all but a single phased state to bypass the shields completely.

    The evidence of this is shown in the episode "Endgame" if you slow it down and watch as the torps explode upon shield impact and then the phased explosion de-phases, causing the cube to explode. You don't actually see the torpedo pass through the shields; the tech doesn't allow them to do that.

Torpedo stats... All have a 90* firing arc and a 10km range
  • Photon Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 2704 DMG / 416 DPS / 0.5s activate / 6s recharge

  • Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 3006 DMG / 354 DPS / 0.5s activate / 8s recharge

  • Plasma Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 2122 DMG / 250 DPS / 0.5s activate / 8s recharge

    • 33% chance of 583 Plasma DMG over 10 sec - 583 x 10 = 5830 DMG (no where in game does it say 33% chance on the Mk X Plasma torps... I got that from STOwiki)

  • Chroniton Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 2315 DMG / 220 DPS / 0.5s activate / 10s recharge

    • 33% chance: Significantly reduces Flight Speed and Turn Rate for 10 sec (It does say in game on the item info 33% chance)

  • Transphasic Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 1956 DMG / 186 DPS / 0.5s activate / 10s recharge

    • Additional 20% shield penetration (which is like having a Shield Array Mk X with a 30% bleedthrough instead of a 10% bleedthrough)

  • Tricobalt Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 8304 1k radius DMG / ### DPS / #.#s activate / 60s recharge

    • Disable for 2s + 50 Repel (can be shot down during flight to foe)

Looking on the exchange right now for common MK XI...
  • Photon: Available 162 / Cheapest price: 20,000

  • Quantum: Available 179 / Cheapest price: 85,000

  • Plasma: Available 162 / Cheapest price: 5,000

  • Chroniton: Available 236 / Cheapest price: 5,000

  • Transphasic: Available 200 / Cheapest price: 8,000

  • Tricobalt: Available 196 / Cheapest price: 10,000

Now Cryptic obviously have better and a lot more accurate methods to see which are the most popular and which are the least, but I think it fairly obvious that Quantums are the most popular.

Here's what I propose (highlighted RED is changed):
  • Photon Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 2704 DMG / 416 DPS / 0.5s activate / 6s recharge

  • Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 3006 DMG / 354 DPS / 0.5s activate / 8s recharge

  • Plasma Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 2122 DMG / 250 DPS / 0.5s activate / 8s recharge

    • 33% chance: 583 Plasma DMG over 10 sec - 583 x 10 = 5830 DMG (no where in game does it say 33% chance on the Mk X Plasma torps... I got that from STOwiki)

    • 33% chance: Significantly reduces Flight Speed and Turn Rate for 10 sec (It does say in game on the item info 33% chance) <<< Move up from Chroniton to Plasma

  • Chroniton Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 777 DMG / 74 DPS / 0.5s activate / 10s recharge

    • Additional 80% shield penetration

    • 33% chance: 200 Chroniton Radiation DMG over 10 sec - 200 x 10 = 2000 DMG

  • Transphasic Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 3998 DMG / 195 DPS / 0.5s activate / 20s recharge

    • Additional 20% shield penetration

  • Tricobalt Torpedo Launcher Mk X has 8304 1k radius DMG / ### DPS / #.#s activate / 60s recharge

    • Disable for 2s + 50 Repel (can be shot down during flight to foe)

AND LASTLY... THIS is what a Chroniton torpedo looks like in canon as it flys towards the USS Voyager and goes straight through the shields.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-wSELBzk2k&#t=0m43s

Do this and if Cryptic wishes to add a counter to the Chroniton torps they can add an optional [Tmp] modifier to shields or something... By that I mean a temporal frequency thingy modifier, like in the episode.

P.S. fuzun thanks for the reply, not all of this is directly aimed at you... Your post just triggered my brain to go into creative mode and I'm just throwing some ideas around here (but it's an idea I really like).
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