Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
I have heard (via STOked) that at around 5-6 beam arrays adding more arrays makes a broadside actually WEAKER, thus making pure beam boats (array boats?) most viable for engineers using their energy powers, and even then when not using, say, Nadion Inversion, they may not be getting all the punch they should.

As such, I'd like to ask just what that point of diminishing return IS. I've been taking to having two arrays fore along with a DBB and torpedo launcher, and 3 arrays aft with a torp launcher. Is this decent for maximizing cruiser damage output? If not, what should I do with it? I fly mostly cruisers, with a tac and an engineer, and I usually use an Assault Cruiser, Odyssey Tactical (with all 3 consoles) and the Excel-R.

Thanks for any input!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 2
06-24-2012, 06:28 PM
I would say around seven. Because cruisers turn so slow torps are not always best. A lot have been using two mine launchers aft. I know others who put a torp front and rear to double their chances of getting on target. I have known others to not run any torps or mines at all and only six energy weapons.

On my FED engineer cruiser I run eight beams, with a little cheese, (Red Matter Capacitor for when my EPS Transfer is on cool down. Then again that is a healer ship that jabs instead of punches. Most my other energy spikes are EPS2Aux to boost my heals.

In the end you are a tank. You endure and wear down as waves slowly break down a pier. If you wanna damage spike you should be in an escort. DPS cruisers are nice in solo play but in team play like STFs and PvP tank or heal and your team will usually thank you for it.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,216
# 3
06-24-2012, 06:47 PM
I saw someone a while back graphed it all out, at varying power levels, and 6 seemed to be the magic number. 7 was juuuuuuust slightly better but not enough to be worth the weapon slot, and 8 was actually weaker. Of course if you're an engineer you can start throwing in EPS Transfer and Nadeon Inversion and change the rules for 30 seconds at a time, but generally 6 seems the sweet spot.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 4
06-25-2012, 01:08 AM
Interesting input. Thank you.

For a "bonus" question - what are your thoughts on my weapon configuration (fore: 2 arrays, 1 DBB, 1 torp, aft: 3 arrays, 1 torp)? I realize turn rate isn't the greatest, but except for about 15 degrees on either side I seem to have decent hits, and when an enemy happens to be at my fore I can unload the DBB right into it. That said, since broadsides are the staple cruiser tactic I'm not sure how wise this is, at least for the not-separated Ody (the AC and Excel-R, I suspect, can get away with it).
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 5
06-25-2012, 01:20 AM
A dbb on the fore won't eat into your energy drain on broadsides and can actually be quite beneficial in adding a damage spike if you carry beam overload, since you go dbb and torp fore you can beam overload on shields for that torp hit or beam overload on hull, either way a dbb can still help.

On my Excelsior one of my tactical boffs uses beam overload 2 and high yield torp 3 which adds a nice one-two blow to your enemy.

The dbb fore with beam overload is also very good for tactical cruisers as fully buffed can pack a mean sting, I know your an engy but I thought I would point that out.
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Last edited by defalus; 06-25-2012 at 01:22 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 658
# 6
06-25-2012, 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
I have heard (via STOked) that at around 5-6 beam arrays adding more arrays makes a broadside actually WEAKER, thus making pure beam boats (array boats?) most viable for engineers using their energy powers, and even then when not using, say, Nadion Inversion, they may not be getting all the punch they should.

As such, I'd like to ask just what that point of diminishing return IS. I've been taking to having two arrays fore along with a DBB and torpedo launcher, and 3 arrays aft with a torp launcher. Is this decent for maximizing cruiser damage output? If not, what should I do with it? I fly mostly cruisers, with a tac and an engineer, and I usually use an Assault Cruiser, Odyssey Tactical (with all 3 consoles) and the Excel-R.

Thanks for any input!

I fly assault cruisers, tactical odyssey and the Galaxy R for elite STFs and inter-fleet PvP.

I have experimented with a variety of loadouts including full cannon, half cannon, torp heavy, etc and I always came to the conclusion that a 6 beam 2 torp loadout gives the best combat effectiveness.

Whatever min maxing there exists to support 8 beams, it just doesn't kill things enough. In a typical STF scenario where I'm faced with 6 elite spheres I want to drop in hard with a buffed up torpedo strike and do at least 18k damage with a quantum salvo out of a Tactical Odyssey. Followed by a 10k beam overload strike out of the bow array.

I don't have time to sit literally completely still in a broadside and poke away at the target with beams. I need to swing through shield arcs to spread out incoming damage and that's the perfect opportunity to let loose a HY2 during that momentary lapse in tactical team / EPTS3/ RSP coverage.

Long range and high speed is the key for successful (elite STF) tanking with any ships - and cruiser turnrate is seriously, not as bad as it sounds. It's like a Rolls Royce... it has 'adequate' maneuverability... to rotate through weapon arcs and unmask torpedo tubes for full salvoes in turn. So just think ahead, stay fast, and you should have no problem doing giving and taking damage all at once.

I am using the 5 beam 1 DBB 2 quantum loadout for my Tac Oddy, and it's a great ship. Considering the fact this Oddy build evolved from a science build to a gunship (cannon) build to a 7 beam boat and back to 5/1/2 again, I'm going to take the plunge and say that for most pilots, 6 beams and 2 quantums makes for an effective "standard Starfleet" cruiser build that can deal with a variety of situations without needing specialized tactics or character specs.

It makes sense to use an extra beam array instead of the DBB if the pilot is expecting to face more maneuverable opposition, because in certain cases there is not much opportunity to actually point the nose at the target.
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Last edited by carmenara; 06-25-2012 at 01:34 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 745
# 7
06-25-2012, 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
Interesting input. Thank you.

For a "bonus" question - what are your thoughts on my weapon configuration (fore: 2 arrays, 1 DBB, 1 torp, aft: 3 arrays, 1 torp)? I realize turn rate isn't the greatest, but except for about 15 degrees on either side I seem to have decent hits, and when an enemy happens to be at my fore I can unload the DBB right into it. That said, since broadsides are the staple cruiser tactic I'm not sure how wise this is, at least for the not-separated Ody (the AC and Excel-R, I suspect, can get away with it).
Evasive Maneuvers can bring the front end around a bit faster :wink:

I ended up switching out a BA for a turret (2BA, Torp, Turret) in the back because I was having a bit of problems with power dips. I went with a torp in the back because mines were a bit too situational.

Fore is DBB, Torp. 2BA -- I have EPtW and BO right next to each other.

Side note: it's not always all about the broadsides -- "Death from above" can work too.
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Last edited by beezle23; 06-25-2012 at 01:41 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 139
# 8
06-25-2012, 07:38 AM
I've thrown a good amount of skill points at the power boosting abilities. I have no issue running 7 beam 1 torp, I would highly recommend trying it. My Beam FAW ability really wrecks, especially now that I have the DOFFs that reduce it's cooldown.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,370
# 9
06-25-2012, 10:26 AM
Hmm... any thoughts on all beam arrays with a few turrets aft?

More firepower at the front, and lowers energy drain...

With a 4 BA fore and 2 BA 2 Turret aft, broadsides and aft are (slightly?) weakened but the front is (slightly?) strengthened.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 10
06-25-2012, 10:59 AM
any positives with using the 4 beam array, 2 on each side, and 4 torpedo tubes, 2 on each side?
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