Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 658
You know I always wondered something about those ginormous pots on the mess hall galley - what goes in them?

Today on Yahoo news I found a blog-like article detailing the galley and meals served on board what seems to be a sea-going reseach vessel.

It has a crew of just under fifty and it looks like a heroic task keeping everyone fed and fed well - there's almost an oversupply of food on board and with some good storage methods they are able to keep fruit and vegetables fresh for weeks out at sea.

Something tells me it's going to be an absolute nightmare to feed all 2500 crew (and hundreds more passengers) aboard something as large as an Odyssey class. It's not like you can serve everyone fresh gagh on a Federation vessel, and someone has to have a whole army of cooks and stewards to run the mess halls and galleys virtually 24/7 (considering 3-4 shifts of personnel.)

It's a good thing we have replicators and it's also a great thing we don't have to manage inventory stores and the like. Even the infamous BC3K games (which allowed for extreme micromanagement... when the game worked) didn't go into so much detail as to stock up certain types of food - virtual crew simply ate I think 3 "nutripaks" a day.

On DS9 we can hear Bashir & O'Brien whining now and then about Starfleet combat rations - Dr. Bashir quips that one ration pack can keep someone full and has enough nutritions for "a couple days" or so... which is not unachievable given today's range of "meal replacement" tablets and other interestingly advanced stuff.

However, except for mad persons like myself (who loves MREs, spamwiches and C-rats, go figure), no one is going to tolerate subsisting on combat rations for year-long deployments a Federation starship is capable of. So you do need an army of "whiteshirts" to keep everyone happy aboard a capital ship.

How do present-day cruise liners and bluewater vessels manage keeping crew fed? Does anyone here have CVN or cruise liner experience? Is the food as good as that on the scientific research vessel mentioned in the Y! news link above, or is it merely 'eatable'?

On the STO roleplaying side - do you imagine you have to restock provisions every now and then in ESD or DS9? Or does everyone prefer to mass-replicate meals and do away with that fire hazard called a kitchen?
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.

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Last edited by carmenara; 06-26-2012 at 01:55 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 2
06-26-2012, 01:57 AM
Well KDF side I have an Alien (single race) crew called the Shol they are amphibious aquatic creatures and live entirely on fish
The Empire pays them for their fighting (and science) skills with unreplicated Fish

you will see the Shol Vok (literally "the peoples catcher of fish" ) in battle and see over the comms "extra ration of fish for the Gunners"
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 658
# 3
06-26-2012, 02:43 AM
And I was thinking of that too - good you picked up the idea.

A single-race crew would definitely be much easier to manage on a large scale and especially if fresh produce were to be used.

However, Starfleet's diversity can get in the way at this point, though I don't mind Bajoran food. Haspheret (sp?) = taco bell anyway.
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.

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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 124
# 4
06-26-2012, 02:54 AM
Since my vessel the stonehenge is a Defiant class, my crew only consists of 50, and our ships mess hall is limited to only having replicators sadly, although i like to think that some might save up their replicator rations to replicate cooking resources that they can then use to cook up something real, after all a ship runs off the stomach of her crew.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
# 5
06-26-2012, 02:59 AM
As a captain of a multi cultural ship with many different races on board i've delegated that we have themed meals every week, this in turn not only gives the crew a good variety and culinary experience, but also offers individual crew members the taste of home. Although the replicators are convenient, and the crew are welcome to create dishes of their own while off duty in their quarters, i do insist that the galley onboard cooks with real food and spices that i make sure are on board before leaving spacedock and kept fresh with a stasis field in cargo bay 1.

Although on Sundays i do insist on a good traditional Roast dinner for the crew, Chicken, beef or lamb, selection of vegetables with crispy roast potatoes, stuffing and a good helping of yorkshire puddings, cover the lot in tasty thick gravy. Sometimes being the captain has it perks and i'm usually found having seconds. :smile:
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,007
# 6
06-26-2012, 07:53 PM
Last time I looked, all the chef was making was pancakes.

At least that was what was on the stove at the time.

I wondered why the gallery was so empty....
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Dr. Mike's Steak Dinner

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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,033
# 7
06-26-2012, 08:04 PM
I heard that a brown sugar coated and baked Pakled was tastey.
I also heard it was rather easy to get them to just lay down in the oven....
Handle: @kirian_darkstar
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 609
# 8
06-26-2012, 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vonbon View Post
Since my vessel the stonehenge is a Defiant class, my crew only consists of 50, and our ships mess hall is limited to only having replicators sadly, although i like to think that some might save up their replicator rations to replicate cooking resources that they can then use to cook up something real, after all a ship runs off the stomach of her crew.
I'm pretty much the same with my vessel, the Sao Paulo-Class USS Raging Tempest. Crew of 50, mess hall limited primarily to replicators.

However, one of my alts flies an Odyssey Tactical Cruiser, which commonly carries large classes of Academy Cadets (the character in question is an Academy Field Instructor), so she does have a rather large galley staff from throughout the Federation.
Originally KiraYamato before the Account Linking - True Join Date August 2008

"Close Air Support covereth a multitude of sins." - Maxim 4, The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 658
# 9
06-26-2012, 09:48 PM
So while we have a good idea of what we want to feed our crews, let's just say for authenticity there is provision for carriage of fresh produce (in stasis) for long term voyages.

How much produce do you need to support an Odyssey size crew + one thousand hypothetical max passenger capacity?

I used some Royal Navy information on this one - this document on the next-generation CVF states that for a crew of 1500 over 6 weeks, 1,000 tons of food are required.

Weekly consumption = 166.6 tons per week
Per week per crew consumption = 0.111 tons per human crew per week

For the hypothetical Odyssey class with 2500+1000 souls aboard (considering Standard Humanoid types), you would require...

0.111 x 3500 = 388.5 tons per week

Considering deep space operations you may want to stock up for a very long voyage as the crew, not the ship, is the limiting factor of endurance. I'll take the SSN analogy here - one self sufficient ship with a very long deployment time, say, two years / 96 Earth weeks.

388.5 x 96 = 37.296 kilotons of food to last self-sufficient 2 years deployment

Granted, with replimats and virtually unlimited capital class warp power you do not need 100% fresh produce, but with a multiracial Federation crew you will want to consider all your member species' nutritional needs as a strictly 100% human crew is going to be very rare in the utopian Federation. This might give a mass/weight/space penalty to the amount of food stored on the vessel especially if you might need to haul not just fresh produce in stasis but "livestock" as well. I'm not sure how live fish in stasis would taste like.

On this note I believe some restrictions are in order. As much as we want to have officers' privledges and authentic Earth styled BBQs and roast events aboard, we have to place some limitations to what is allowed fresh aboard and what should be replicated. It's much easier to generate a replicated grilled fish meal than to have an actual aquarium aboard ship which creates a huge mass and volume penalty. Something as large as a Galaxy class outfitted for exploration and colonial support in the TNG era could hold one but that's out of the question for a ship that's expected to act as a battle cruiser full time in the STO context.


So at least for this Tactical Odyssey class deployed for full time Omega Force strike and task force command operations, I don't mind having replicated steaks and meals of the crew's choosing (computer assigned daily randomized menu) if the ship is on green alert. During a STF tour of duty with up to a dozen ESTF missions per day, replicators will be locked down due to combat power and fleet support requirements and we have MREs and meals prepared from c-rations just like everyone else on combat deployment.

This concept of 'universal suffrage' might be rare in a military command structure, but Star Trek is an environment where commanding officers themselves risk themselves in special operations missions rather than embark specially equipped Starship Troopers for the task.

And besides the less power allocated to replicators and other unnecessary systems, the more power I can channel to weapons. This ship for some reason has problems keeping up 125 weapons power and I needed one assimilated console + 2 plasma distro manifolds for that. Prototype stats, perhaps.

If there's a time to enjoy utopian luxuries it's when we complete the tour of duty and return to Starbase One for refitting. Not before - a united mission is what keeps an international crew performing at peak efficiency, and us officers having the same meal allowances as the crew has a possibly strong effect on shipboard morale.

The use of packaged Starfleet rations aboard also simplifies the logistics chain and makes the ship less vulnerable in the event of resupply at possibly contaminated native sources. No taking on produce from alien worlds = no risk of contamination. We can also use excess Starfleet rations for humanitarian or underway replenishment for other vessels in need.

... And besides, IRL I can whip up the most delicious meals out of C-rations and nothing else
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.

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Last edited by carmenara; 06-26-2012 at 09:57 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,238
# 10
06-26-2012, 10:13 PM
In the Enterprise D tech Manual, this is actually talked about. The majority of food on Federation Starships is replicated So only limited fresh food is required. this is the reason that Federation ships can be self sufficent for long periods of time.

The material used by the replicators is actually a combination of recycled material from the ship, as well as Deuterium.

May the Prophets guide us in these cryptic times....
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