Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 137
# 21
06-28-2012, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poison View Post
My purpose is that I'd much rather have Federation DOffs on Federation Ships rather than all the enemy species that were released. As Dan said several times, there's always that "What happened to..." aspect of Star Trek, and something simple like an icon/text change for a DOff into another race we didn't see much of is a nice little easter egg for Trek Fans who can go "Oh yeah, I remember those, cool, now I want to get more of them."


Amen to that
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,987
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 744
# 23
06-28-2012, 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Traits don't contain modifiers, they are simply flags. It is the Assignment that determines whether or not a Trait influences the outcome. So in order to add a Trait to our existing library of Assignments, they'd have to be gone-thru by hand, one-by-one, and then decided whether or not to update each one to reflect the new Trait.

That's a lot of data.
I thought of that after I posted, and kind of hoped it wasn't the case... maybe you could add new traits, and then take them into account for future DOff missions? I guess that sort of makes the new trait pointless for the majority of missions, though.
Join Date: July 29 2008
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,188
# 24
06-28-2012, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
What do you see as the primary purpose(s) behind introducing new Duty officer species?

I'm not asking to discourage the brainstorming here - it may, in fact, come in quite handy. But I'd like to get a more solid understanding as to why more species variation is being requested.

* Are there shortcomings in the current system that new species can address?
* Are there new mechanics you'd like to see pursued that new species would allow for?
* Is it just a roleplay / immersion thing?
To some extent, it's just roleplaying. I just like the idea that there are more than the standard races around. They don't need to have unique traits.

That said, I think the Telekinesis trait is a bit too rare, so introducing a few races with a stronger likelihood having it could be neat.

Generally, species can open new, interesting combinations. Some traits don't appear together very often. (Logical and Congenial comes to mind). So having a few rarer species having those could be interesting.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 25
06-28-2012, 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by videm View Post
uhm, what would you call the century from 0 AD to 100 AD, the zeroth century? ordinals are one based, not zero based, that's all. If you call 0 to 100 the first century, then 2000 to 2100 is called the twenty first century
Perhaps your right.

Just seems pretty funny to me, since I tend consider the "21st" century, to be 2100+. Also doesn't help that in my native language, we tend to say "20-hundred, twelve", in reference to 2012
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 254
# 26
06-28-2012, 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meurik View Post
Perhaps your right.

Just seems pretty funny to me, since I tend consider the "21st" century, to be 2100+. Also doesn't help that in my native language, we tend to say "20-hundred, twelve", in reference to 2012
To confuse you even more. 2100 will still be "21st century" while 2101 will be "22nd century" because of that whole rule of starting with 1 instead of 0.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 407
# 27
06-28-2012, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
What do you see as the primary purpose(s) behind introducing new Duty officer species?

I'm not asking to discourage the brainstorming here - it may, in fact, come in quite handy. But I'd like to get a more solid understanding as to why more species variation is being requested.

* Are there shortcomings in the current system that new species can address?
* Are there new mechanics you'd like to see pursued that new species would allow for?
* Is it just a roleplay / immersion thing?

On the subject of new traits:
We found, from the introduction of Resolve doffs, that introducing new Traits is not a design choice that has long-term sustainability. While it still may be something we introduce in the future, we have to be sure that the amount of dev time that goes into ensuring the new Trait's viability is worth the investment. Hundreds and hundreds of work hours went into introducing Resolve and giving it a purpose, while also addressing economic and systemic balance concerns that it introduced. It's not something that we've completely ruled out, but it is unlikely that we will do something that like with any form of frequency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Traits don't contain modifiers, they are simply flags. It is the Assignment that determines whether or not a Trait influences the outcome. So in order to add a Trait to our existing library of Assignments, they'd have to be gone-thru by hand, one-by-one, and then decided whether or not to update each one to reflect the new Trait.

That's a lot of data.
Could you at least have all the current DOff species' traits in the list in the DOff UI sorted alphabetically?
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,067
# 28
06-28-2012, 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
What do you see as the primary purpose(s) behind introducing new Duty officer species?

I'm not asking to discourage the brainstorming here - it may, in fact, come in quite handy. But I'd like to get a more solid understanding as to why more species variation is being requested.

* Are there shortcomings in the current system that new species can address?
* Are there new mechanics you'd like to see pursued that new species would allow for?
* Is it just a roleplay / immersion thing?

On the subject of new traits:
We found, from the introduction of Resolve doffs, that introducing new Traits is not a design choice that has long-term sustainability. While it still may be something we introduce in the future, we have to be sure that the amount of dev time that goes into ensuring the new Trait's viability is worth the investment. Hundreds and hundreds of work hours went into introducing Resolve and giving it a purpose, while also addressing economic and systemic balance concerns that it introduced. It's not something that we've completely ruled out, but it is unlikely that we will do something that like with any form of frequency.
First off: I'm happy to hear from you on this.

Honestly, in some cases, it's just for the novelty of adding new races that have been seen in Star Trek at some time. (most of the human-look alike races, FGC-47, a bunch of others) Like Poison said, in-game there are a dozen races from canon Stasr Trek that are part of the Federation and not available as Doff races. Even if they were hard to find it'd be ncie to have at least a few members of their races in the Doff system. In the case of Hortas, I went WTF?!?!? when I found out they were in the game as pets!!! It'd also be nice if races like the Rigelians, Trill, and Betazoids had larger trait pools.

In the case of KDF(or Romulan) aligned races it's because of the number of species available to that faction. KDF has far fewer options for regular recruitment than the Federation does. It actually does need some more variety in Doff races. There's only 5 races (Klingon, Gorn, Orion, Lethean, Nausicaan)that KDF can recruit normally, all others are special cases. (Borg, Ferasan, Breen, Photonic, Reman, etc...) This is actually the reason I first started this list. To brainstorm new KDF Doff races. First and foremost, the Kriosians. The KDF owns their home planet and has for decades. Thus it makes sense for them to have become members of the KDF in some capacity. (so what if they're obscure? So are Rigelians(~2 ep)! Rigelians are even playable!!!) Hmm... The Gallamites that felderburg mentioned sound cool.

As for new Traits I see where you're going, but, if you toss them in the same way Cold-Blooded was added originally it would work out ok I think. (IE it's only used for a few missions and all Doffs with it have at least one other trait) Resolve was odd because a giant stack of missions that required it were added so that people HAD to have it. Adding a new trait would be far less awkward if it wasn't added as a "must have" trait. Like mustrumridcully0 said, new races mean new combinations of traits that are rarely if ever seen in the currently existing races.

And yeah, I LOVED the Xindi Aquatic ships. I'd also like to see more Xindi. Like Meurik said, they're a full-fledged Federation member, why are they so rare?

Also, if 1 or more Factions become playable in the future we need to have a list of Doff races for them to be able to recruit from. This is why I didn't simply mark races as Fed or KDF and made more general notes.

So that's why I made the list. (okay the Xindi Aquatic ships had nothing to do with it, but you get the idea)

Last edited by markhawkman; 06-28-2012 at 09:46 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 29
06-28-2012, 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meurik View Post
Wouldn't mind seeing more prominence of the Xindi (and their sub-species) to be honest.

Of the 5 living (as of 2152) sub-species, i'd see the following:

Xindi Aquatic: Neutral (both factions)
Xindi Arboreal: Friendly towards Federation
Xindi Humanoid: Friendly towards Federation
Xindi Insectoid: Friendly towards KDF
Xindi Reptilian: Friendly towards KDF

Also wouldn't mind seeing their ships make appearances in the game. After all, by the 26th Century (100-200 years post-STO), Xindi are supposed to be a part of Starfleet. We have no idea how long they were in Starfleet. Xindi Aquatic ships were total bada$$ in the series.
All of the Xindi races are currently EXCEPTIONALLY RARE Doffs available only for the Federation. Even the Insectoid and Reptillian versions.
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,294
# 30
06-29-2012, 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
Before new species are added, the old "meh" species need a boost. Species like Trill and Betazoid still have many doffs that are only 1 Traited (or at most, 2 Traited).

Trill should have Congenial as a Racial Trait. Green or better should have an extra trait or two pulled from the whole list of remaining traits.

Betazoids should all have Seductive as a Racial (That telepathy comes in handy for being able to seduce, and their culture does seem very liberal in *that* regard). Again, Green or better should have an extra trait or 2 pulled from the list of all traits.
I agree that there are DOFF races that are too trait-limited and I'd like to see that addressed. The majority of Commons have 3 traits, so that is obviously the normal baseline.

I disagree on the other two counts.

Just because Jadzia Dax was "Congenial", doesn't mean all Trill are. All you have to do is look at Verad (DS9: Invasive Procedures) and Joran (DS9: Equilibrium) to see that it's not universal.

Betazoids could have Seductive as an optional trait, but they should be distinct from Deltans and for this reason alone I'd say they don't need to be universally Seductive. The trait is at least partly due to pheromones in the case of both Deltans and Orions, and Betazoids do not have any special ability to release pheromones in that way.
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