Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 31
06-27-2012, 08:12 AM
It's my experience that the Escorts zoom off and leave us Cruisers behind. Especially when we have to turn to face a new group of enemies.

As a cruiser, it's out job to tank, heal, and deal sustained damage. If the escorts would stay with us, we could do our job better. :biggrin:

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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 32
06-27-2012, 08:30 AM
The problem is that, regardless of Ship type, people underuse Evasive (and Deuterium/Engine Batteries if carried).
"What if I need it for an emergency escape?" Chances are, it'll be up. If it's not, that's what Ramming Speed is for (well, it's for kamikaze runs, but many of us use it to run away).

And people don't seem to learn STFs.
When you've done one 10+ times, surely you should've noticed a few things, no? There's the overall strat, but there's also learning small details like "I can Evasive here and it'll be up in time for that part of the mission" or "yeah, I'll pop the Subspace Field Modulator now, by the time we encounter another target that fights back it'll be back up".
But no, it seems that, aside from following the guides, many play with their brains off: no situational awareness, blind panic if anything doesn't go according to plan...


tl;dr: instead of "Full Impulse to ~15km, then crawl the last 5km while power regenerates", many should try "popping Evasive to reach the target ASAP and at full power".
It works, even in Fatty Bortas.

Examples:
1. ISE:
- APO is usually enough to reach the initial targets, but Evasive doesn't hurt if you don't have APO.
- Left side Transformer dead, probes cleaned up? Evasive to right. No point slowly crawling or waiting for FI and arriving with low Weapons/Shields/Aux.

2. KASE:
- Evasive to the Tac Cube. It's far away, Evasive->APO is usually needed. If no APO, FI for a (very) short time->Evasive.
- Tac cube blows? Evasive to probes on one side. Not necessary, but saves a couple of seconds.
- Pop Evasive when you need to reach probes or have just killed probes and need to head back to a Transformer/Cube.
- One Gate down? FI->Evasive.
- When the Gates are down, save Evasive for Donatra's Thalaron, especially in slow Ships.

3. CSE:
- Evasive at start, then as needed to reach targets.

Last edited by quiscustodiet; 06-27-2012 at 08:45 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 106
# 33
06-27-2012, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaglory View Post
It's my experience that the Escorts zoom off and leave us Cruisers behind. Especially when we have to turn to face a new group of enemies.

As a cruiser, it's out job to tank, heal, and deal sustained damage. If the escorts would stay with us, we could do our job better. :biggrin:


I have this problem too, it's often a race to engage the enemy before the escorts do. Also, they seem to have little sense and when multiple enemies appear, tend to attack those targets further off that I'm not firing on.

As well as that, I find there is literally no support for the tank when he is able to hold the aggro. Sure I can tank well enough on my own, but it'd be easier and more conducive to the team effort to support your tank when you don't have to worry about being fired on. Besides, is that TSS or HE really going to save you from the full attentions of a Tac Cube?

Another thing, why do escorts spec into Threat Control? I often hear it's for the damage resistance (8.6% for all 9 ranks, not going to save you). If you fly an escort and have points in threat control, you've no right to complain.

Some tanks wont dish out numerous heals either, because they can't. A good tank build will have some self target only skills and with lack of support, will be forced to take more of these on to tank on their lonesomes.

So my response to the OP's question is one of my own: Why do escorts not undertsand how to work with cruisers?

P.S. Threat control damage resistance by rank
1: 1.6
2: 3.1
3: 4.9
4: 5.7
5: 6.4
6: 7.4
7: 7.7
8: 8.2
9: 8.6

Just so you can see why getting ranks in Threat Control to increase your damage resistance isn't a bright idea. Donations of Cryptic Points to recover those lost respecs finding this out are welcome
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 160
# 34
06-27-2012, 09:24 AM
I love pulling aggro in my cruiser. I have it set up like a Juggernaut. First thing I do is hit FAW and torp spread and watch all the love come in. With FBP and RSP all I do is laugh maniacally as all these beams come in, shortly to be snuffed out by our friendly paper guns.
-It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-- Mark Twain.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 488
# 35
06-27-2012, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaglory View Post
It's my experience that the Escorts zoom off and leave us Cruisers behind. Especially when we have to turn to face a new group of enemies.

As a cruiser, it's out job to tank, heal, and deal sustained damage. If the escorts would stay with us, we could do our job better. :biggrin:
reading through these posts i came across this one. exactly what i was thinking. i command all types of ships with a slight preference for cruisers. in a cruiser i just can't keep up with an escort especially when a turn is involved. you ever tried turning a cruiser??
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 36
06-27-2012, 09:32 AM
Cruisers have to be careful when we close engage (and I have literally fought hull to hull on occasions) because there is usually someone in an escort who sees your target hit 25% hull and shields down (which is when you pull away and let the rear weapons rip it to bits)
they then think "Easy Kill accolade" and ZERO YOU (term for the deliberate destruction of a vessel/target with the intention of damaging or destroying a ship on your own side)

That form of Griefing makes us cautious

Other forms like for example spreading plasma mines onto a target we are nearly touching

Tractor beaming wrecked ships into our hull

Gunning down our support craft with casual aoe weapon use on their closely engaged targets (target blows up there goes your support craft)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 315
# 37
06-27-2012, 12:05 PM
Cruiser captain here and I can answer your questions from my experience at least.

Distance has advantages when tanking.
  1. If I pull the group to me, I don?t have to drive into a group at full impulse (sometimes the only way to catch impatient escorts). I?m not as fast as you, so work at my pace if you want me to do my job. In fact, if I?m facing the wrong way after combat ends, don?t expect me to just zip a turn and be ready for the next one.
  2. I Don?t have to worry about mines/heavy torps
  3. I can keep aggro better against NPC's that travel larger distances. A good pull will give escorts good close range shots as well.
  4. My Turn rate is more effective at displacing damage
  5. Their cannons aren?t as effective against me
  6. Against NPC?s, they almost always fire their initial BOff weapon immediately after drawing agro, so the larger distance makes this far less effective against me (more recovery time)

As for not healing, what were you expecting? In most groups there is no one left to heal me, even if I ask. So I don't really have a choice but to save it for myself. More often than not, I end up spending my entire fight heads down in my HUD watching cooldowns. If you want me to tank successfully, then why not heal me instead of expecting me to heal you while taking on everyone else as well.

Lastly, if you want cruisers captains to follow you in combat, you need to give them the common courtesy of letting us heal and reposition when combat is over. I suspect my hull/shield/crew strength doesn?t rebound as fast as escorts probably because I?m bigger. So zooming off to the next engagement without me isn?t going to win you any favors.
Kobayashi Maru
Join Date: Sept 2008


"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
# 38
06-27-2012, 12:17 PM
Tactical running in an Assault Cruiser and only have self heal abilities so I can't heal someone else even if I wanted to. I have to agree with others. If you want to out distance the Cruisers (or do like some escorts I've seen and go off on their own tangent) then you need to expect to get torn apart. Why do you think my character is a Tactical officer in an Assault Cruiser in the first place? It means I don't have to deal with the whims of Escorts. I can take a hit and still deal out so good damage on my own.

Besides watching Escorts pop is more fun than bubble wrap. :p
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,377
# 39
06-27-2012, 01:12 PM
I (accidentally) grabbed the aggro of two to three dozen enemies last night, and dragged them far off to the side while the rest of the group (a half dozen or more ships?) actually got the objective done.

Does that count as tanking? :biggrin:
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 40
06-27-2012, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorwen View Post
Tactical running in an Assault Cruiser and only have self heal abilities so I can't heal someone else even if I wanted to.
Tac Team

Sci Team
Hazard Emitters
Transfer Shield Strength

Eng Team
Aux to SIF
Extend Shields


Are you saying that your cruiser does not carry any of those abilities?


Hint: Only one of the above is an ally-only shield heal. All the rest can be used on yourself, or an ally.
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