Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
This has been bugging me since the game first launched. On the sector map, all the territories are differently colored to suggest which major galactic faction owns that territory. Blue for Federation, Red for Klingon, Green for Romulan, Brown for Cardassians.

And yet there's the Gamma Orionis block, which is controlled by the Borg.


Now, it has always been my assumption that this sector was in the Delta Quadrant, right in the middle of Borg Space. The reason being that you need to use a transwarp gate just to get there. This would make sense, because you can easily travel everywhere else in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants without any advanced means of transportation with your ship.

Upon closer examination, it does indeed look like that sector is part of the Alpha Quadrant though, which begs me to ask why we have to travel there by a TW gate. I mean, we could just as easily access it from Eta Eridani, yet we need a TW gate to travel there. If we can't even fly there on our own accord, then why aren't TW Gates being used to connect everywhere else in the two quadrants? Why not set one up in Alpha Centauri and Zeta Andromeda for ease of travel? Both Starfleet and the KDF have the technology to invent their own gate network that the Borg couldn't tap into... I mean, that's what's happening with the two that exist now.

(BTW: On the subject of flying from Eta Eridani: No matter how you try to justify it, if Deferi space really is where it is, then you have to fly through 3 separate blocks to reach there from Eta. It's on the far side of Federation territory, natch.)


But then there is one glaringly obvious issue with the Delta Quadrant theory. WHY IS THE INFAMOUS MUTARA NEBULA IN BORG-CONTROLLED SPACE!? The very nebula where Kirk fought against Khan in Star Trek 2.

I could understand if it was a Mutara-class nebula, which have been pointed out on a few occasions in the series, but not THE Mutara Nebula.

I can understand that a lot has changed in the last 30 years since the end of Voyager. I can see the Borg making an aggressive advance just to make a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant, and it seems that is just what they did.

And then there's the other obvious issue: How is it that the Undine have portals leading to Fluidic Space over here in the Alpha Quadrant? Unless Fluidic Space is exceptionally smaller than our space, and distance is measured in a hyperbolic comparison (One mile over there equals one lightyear here or something), then it would still take them far longer than 30 years just to make it to the Alpha Quadrant. This is what also leads me to believe that Gamma Orionis is in the Delta Quadrant: Because the Pelia Sector is connected not too far from the Borg's home turf.




TL;DR: Is the Gamma Orionis block in the Alpha or Delta Quadrant?
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 231
# 2
06-28-2012, 03:15 PM
It's south of Federation space on the map (Alpha quadrant), the borg used transwarp conduits to get there. It's just the ingame map (and the fact people are used to the Borg been in the Delta quadrant) that confuses things.

I'd argue the Mutara nebula should not be there either, not because of the location (because it is the right location), but because in ST:II, didn't it get obliterated by the Genesis effect when the Reliant exploded?

It would be nice if the sector block got linked to the game map instead of having to use transwarp conduits in the future though, just like we are misssing sectors between Sirius sector block and Cardassian space.

My views are my own and may not represent those of Perfect World Entertainment
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 183
# 3
06-28-2012, 03:28 PM
The STO map is based on the book Star Trek Star Charts. There was only one map that showed the location of the Mutara Nebula.

One of the few scans I could find: here

So the Mutara Nebula is deep within the Beta Quadrant. It's not even really connected to the space that is currently visitable in-game. It's location on the game map is also confusing.

"Sometimes you have to do things that you hate, so you can survive to fight another day."
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8
# 4
06-28-2012, 05:18 PM
It's deep in the Beta Quadrant which is off the current area of the STO map, which is why it's drawn off in a separate area and why the Federation built a transwarp gate to get there fast.

Why do they need to get there fast? Because it's a war front. The Borg travelled there from the Delta Quadrant and are using it as a beachhead, their launch point for the invasion of the Alpha/Beta quadrants. So that's why they are there and have assimilated part of it.


The Mutara Nebula is there because that's where Star Trek 2 was set. Part of the nebula gets turned into the Genesis planet (which also exploded by the end of Star Trek 3 because it was unstable). Why is the nebula still there now? Because a nebula is huge; several light years across. No way could the whole thing have been consumed by Genesis.

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 5
06-28-2012, 06:39 PM
Sigh. Full impulse in the show is, (depending on the source), 0.25 or 0.5C. Warp 1 is 1C, it goes up logorithmiclly from there. The enterprise had to warp out and the genesis exploshion ws still large despite even a low warp hop putting them a VERY long way away, (and clearly outside the nebulae). There's no reason to belive it didn't consume the whole nebulae in fact. Though it does have some mass/energy issues as even a very small nebulae is going to be vastly more massive than a planet.


@OP: There's actually federation transwarp hubs everywhere, thats probably what we use when we switch sectors as the current sectors shown simply don't represent enough volume for the entire federation. Let along them plus romulans, plus klingons, plus everybody else. It's actually outlined in one of the federations romulan arc missions. It just isn't shouted about much.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 462
# 6
06-28-2012, 06:45 PM
it's like when you see a map of scotland, quite often they put the orkney (north of the top most corner) and shetland isles (which should be way way north of orkney) in a box in the moray firth (above the north east corner). Its a cartographer trick to fit things on a map.

how it's often shown to save space
how it really is

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Last edited by eiledon; 06-28-2012 at 06:48 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
# 7
06-28-2012, 07:18 PM
Thanks for taking time and posting this... it is a nice viewpoint you have on this
perhaps there are areas of space federation/kdf ships cannot go thru (aggressors etc.) so they must use tw
@ZackerySS - Joined on Aug 2008: year of the greenpig
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 944
# 8
06-28-2012, 08:30 PM
The Genesis Planet - in Star Trek III - would have to be just close enough for Lord Kruge in his cloaked Bird of Prey to have crossed the Federation border for his infamous visit. So Beta Quadrant makes sense. The bulk of the Nebula became the matter used to create the planet. As the original novelization explains it, the Genesis wave broke down and reversed the process. Thus the planet broke back down and the Mutara Nebula was restored. So Beta Quadrant makes sense.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,034
# 9
06-28-2012, 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suricatta View Post
I'd argue the Mutara nebula should not be there either, not because of the location (because it is the right location), but because in ST:II, didn't it get obliterated by the Genesis effect when the Reliant exploded?
Also in response to OP, it can certainly be THE Mutara Nebula, or more accuratly the remnants of the nebula. Nebulae can be huge meaning multiple light years across. Nebulae and dust clouds can be stellar nurseries to dozens or up to hundreds of proto star systems. A Genersis device consuming enough matter for a star and a few planets would be nothing to a typical star nursery nebula.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 10
06-28-2012, 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordfuzun View Post
Also in response to OP, it can certainly be THE Mutara Nebula, or more accuratly the remnants of the nebula. Nebulae can be huge meaning multiple light years across. Nebulae and dust clouds can be stellar nurseries to dozens or up to hundreds of proto star systems. A Genersis device consuming enough matter for a star and a few planets would be nothing to a typical star nursery nebula.
It's more the point that the famous Mutara Nebula just now happens to be in Borg-controlled space that gets me. Like I said, there have been Mutara-class nebulae pointed out in various episodes (Voyager: "One" and "Counterpoint" for example,) and I could find that easier to believe. It's just hard to wrap my head around the idea that something so famous among Star Trek fans like this would be taken over like that.
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part."
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition

Last edited by cusashorn; 06-28-2012 at 09:18 PM.
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