Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 21
06-28-2012, 08:25 PM
I would say for the intrepid, its not so much the build as it how to make life easy for your allies. Gather up a horde of Probes in a GW is cool, but slapping a GW on a pack of them with an escort alie bearing down on them is a work of art.

The nimbleness of the intrepid means it can get to the crysis faster than a cruiser for a much needed heal or tractor beam. A well played intrepid is a first responder bringing a volume of crowd control, debuffing, and healing that can't be matched by any escort.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 148
# 22
06-28-2012, 08:54 PM
Yup its extremely effective in PvE. But for PvP, its near darn useless. Fun? Not in my books since people spec into insulators. Heck, most stf sets have insulators already. You need Beam arrays to make use of subsystem targeting. Thats a key bonus for sci ships.

Science ships in general are the toolbox. Escorts and Cruisers can generally do stuff well enough on their own. But a science ship can provide the abilities that make the objective so much easier.

For example.
Science can run grav well. Now in an elite STF, you should be doing the 10% rule and not killing cubes right away in Infected. However, say you have a pug and he kills it. Grav well can save the day by holding back the nanite probes or a fleet of Raptors.

Is your buddy taking heat from a cube? Use target weapons.
You have one Raptor tractored, now how about we target the others engines.

Or in the case of PvP
In order to break tougher ships, you may need to run scramble sensors to prevent heals from going to him. Or force a science team so your Subnuke doesnt get cleared.

Or throw out a viral matrix to shut down subsystems.

Now you might say, these powers can be run on a Oddy. Sure they can, but they are probably not specced into optimizing these abilities and its harder for them to get into a forward firing arc.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,881
# 23
06-28-2012, 10:49 PM
I know Cygone's Intrepid and Nebula builds which I trust are great, the problem is they rely heavily on sci skills, something I can't do. That's why I started this thread. I'm basically trying to find a use for the least DPS capable combination: eng toon in a (2 tac console) science ship with more or less universal skills trained.

And that "command and control" role seems to be the best suited, just staying with the bulk of the team, tossing a little heal here, probably keeping at least one Gravity well to hopefully stop enemy hordes when something goes awry and debuffing enemies.

Now to specifics, since I'm hardly a threat to (and likely a target of) stronger borg vessels, I guess I'm at liberty to weaken my shield enhancing abilities, including TT (redistribute should do).
  • That should open up slots for a variety of science abilities, the most important ones should then be backed up by a console and/or a doff. But which ones?
  • Now to the tac boff, if I leave TT go, I might then get some combination of BFAW, AP Beta and a Torp enhancer. AP Beta is useful in any combination. I think I should keep one torp because of the shield draining I do. It would then stand to logic to use the best of it with either THY or TS. BFAW and ensuing TS might be killer for groups of weaker ships. THY and AP Beta would be best against single targets. Again, what way to go?

NB: Thanks for your advice, personnal experience and opinions.

EDIT: Comme think of it, I'm trying to build a poor man's versatile science vessel.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,263
# 24
06-28-2012, 11:33 PM
Eng in a Recon was my main for several months (she flies an Excelsior R now), and once I got some help with my build I was fully capable of handling probe duty in KASE (for example), so in this case I'm 100% certain that your combo can work just fine.

Don't drop tac team. When you grav well a group to buy the rest of your team time, that whole group is now angry at you. Yeah they'll switch to the escorts once the shooting starts, but all the ones that aren't yet in a teammates crosshairs will be gunning for you instead. 6 elite nanite spheres start hunting you together and you passed on survival skills, that can be painful. So TT1, then either a torp skill or Overload, depending on your tastes.

Engineering, EPTS1 for when something is mad at you and you need the extra shield toughness. For the LT skill, you could do Eng Team 2 for a good solid hull heal, or Aux To Structural 1 since you'll be running high aux power anyways. Not as good as ET2 in the healing department, but the resistance boost is nice. Either way you can flash heal a teammate's failing hull.

Science toss on ST1, PH1, Tractor Beam 1, HE2, and TSS2. That will give you all the counters you could need, good over-time hull and shield heals, and the always-useful 'you're not going anywhere,' and leaves you your top 3 sci spots for your choice of big-hit powers. Or upgrade either the TSS or HE to 3, and put a TBR1 in the free Lt slot. If you upgrade both though you're probably giving up too much offense. Maybe load Gravity Well 1 and Photonic Shockwave 3 (or vice versa), or try other stuff that catches your interest.

As for science-power related doffs, 3 come to my mind, and I'm sure other people can think of more. A gravimetric scientist (get purple from the Eridan Belt colonization) gives your gravity well the chance to spawn other gravity wells. A tractor beam officer (Arucanis Arm colonization) adds a small but functional shield drain to your tractor beam. Or a pair of blue photonic studies scientists can cut the cooldown of a photonic shockwave to the universal limit of 30 seconds.

Finally on weapons, 3 turrets in the back, in the front put a DBB and a quantum, and then either a second torp or DBB (your call), but you want at least one beam for subsystem targeting and one torp for hull busting. If you go with 2 torp launchers, then be extra sure to get a pair of purple projectile doffs, either from the Khazan Cluster colonization, the Ghosts Of The Jem'Hadar mission chain, or purchased for EDC on DS9.

This is all just one idea of course, but it got me my Maco 12 set, so I know it works and isn't particularly hard to use.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 25
06-28-2012, 11:40 PM
I should perhaps point out that im a "Regs " type I do not mount BORG tech of any kind
nor allow borg Doffs Boffs or passengers onboard

I am primary a RPG type im here to play a starfleet officer and as such I do not use ANY of these Alien sets (except experimental jem hadar engines on one science ship as part of a special project they won't be staying)
Infact my ground boffs tend to carry phaser type two

But "out of the box" the intrepid is a sports car not a volvo

As to the nebula (a tactical cruiser in a science role) it can tank it can also c+c and with the right crew (boffs) its better in some jobs than my Galaxy R
But you see its NOT my Galaxy R
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,881
# 26
06-29-2012, 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
Eng in a Recon was my main for several months (she flies an Excelsior R now), and once I got some help with my build I was fully capable of handling probe duty in KASE (for example), so in this case I'm 100% certain that your combo can work just fine.

Don't drop tac team. When you grav well a group to buy the rest of your team time, that whole group is now angry at you. Yeah they'll switch to the escorts once the shooting starts, but all the ones that aren't yet in a teammates crosshairs will be gunning for you instead. 6 elite nanite spheres start hunting you together and you passed on survival skills, that can be painful. So TT1, then either a torp skill or Overload, depending on your tastes.

Engineering, EPTS1 for when something is mad at you and you need the extra shield toughness. For the LT skill, you could do Eng Team 2 for a good solid hull heal, or Aux To Structural 1 since you'll be running high aux power anyways. Not as good as ET2 in the healing department, but the resistance boost is nice. Either way you can flash heal a teammate's failing hull.

Science toss on ST1, PH1, Tractor Beam 1, HE2, and TSS2. That will give you all the counters you could need, good over-time hull and shield heals, and the always-useful 'you're not going anywhere,' and leaves you your top 3 sci spots for your choice of big-hit powers. Or upgrade either the TSS or HE to 3, and put a TBR1 in the free Lt slot. If you upgrade both though you're probably giving up too much offense. Maybe load Gravity Well 1 and Photonic Shockwave 3 (or vice versa), or try other stuff that catches your interest.

As for science-power related doffs, 3 come to my mind, and I'm sure other people can think of more. A gravimetric scientist (get purple from the Eridan Belt colonization) gives your gravity well the chance to spawn other gravity wells. A tractor beam officer (Arucanis Arm colonization) adds a small but functional shield drain to your tractor beam. Or a pair of blue photonic studies scientists can cut the cooldown of a photonic shockwave to the universal limit of 30 seconds.

Finally on weapons, 3 turrets in the back, in the front put a DBB and a quantum, and then either a second torp or DBB (your call), but you want at least one beam for subsystem targeting and one torp for hull busting. If you go with 2 torp launchers, then be extra sure to get a pair of purple projectile doffs, either from the Khazan Cluster colonization, the Ghosts Of The Jem'Hadar mission chain, or purchased for EDC on DS9.

This is all just one idea of course, but it got me my Maco 12 set, so I know it works and isn't particularly hard to use.
Nothing against your very detailed list, but you'll find I'm a stubborn person. I've basically settled on what I posted before.

Eng slots (console and boff) are no prob, those I have nailed down, weapons as well (since I fly it the escort way - how else to cast many sci powers, heh? - turrets, dual beam banks and one torp). As for the set, I've always found the combination 2 borg 2 else (shield and deflector) to be most useful (although 3 borg, shield of choice can also work), I'll chose the most fitting to the powers I'll use.

As for the Tac boff, as I wrote, either a nice combo BFAW and TS or THY and AP Beta. Maybe even BFAW and AP Beta might work or, if TT reveals to really be indispensable, TT and AP Beta. But the last two kinda waste the shield draining I'm expecting to still achieve. (Also I'm willing not to use TT to potentially make place for ST.)

Now the biggest unknown, sci abilities.
- I should keep one GW (rank 1 seems to work fine, even without any consoles), 1 HE (any rank) is always useful, I guess 1 TSS should also stay.
- Now if I want to continue drain shields (btw the only sci skill I specced somewhat into, back then), I should also keep a Tachyon beam.
- A polarize hull might also come in handy.

That's 5, meaning I got 3 empty sci slots (2 of them possibly Lt. Comm or higher).
- I hear Viral matrix ain't too useful, and I already disable well with subsystem targeting.
- Tyken's Rift... ehm, not sure if another power drain helps, also, would it pull any meaningful numbers without console support?
- Photonic Shockwave. I've seen this advised a lot. Bonus damage to my weapons is welcome, also kinetic works nice against not (anymore) shielded opponents. But isn't it only useful at very close range? If not (too small range), then this might be worth supporting with a console and doffs.
- Tractor beam (and TB Repulsor), well, those can be useful. If I find nothing better, TB should have a place. Not sure about the repulsor, though, it can easily screw targeting positions of the entire team, giving advantage to the enemy.
- Ehm, that's about it, can't think of any other sci abilities...

Now if there's still someone I haven't discouraged... What do you think are the 3 sci abilities (orange) I should add to my chosen 5 (also maybe what rank of them)? And which of the Tac combos (red) I should stick with?

Oh, and getting consoles shouldn't be a problem. As for the different doffs, I should have enough purples of all necessary specialisations. Now who'll dare advising within my stubbornly set boundaries? Oh, I know, sorry...
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!

Last edited by toiva; 06-29-2012 at 01:17 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,881
# 27
06-29-2012, 01:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
I should perhaps point out that im a "Regs " type I do not mount BORG tech of any kind
nor allow borg Doffs Boffs or passengers onboard

I am primary a RPG type im here to play a starfleet officer and as such I do not use ANY of these Alien sets (except experimental jem hadar engines on one science ship as part of a special project they won't be staying)
Infact my ground boffs tend to carry phaser type two

But "out of the box" the intrepid is a sports car not a volvo

As to the nebula (a tactical cruiser in a science role) it can tank it can also c+c and with the right crew (boffs) its better in some jobs than my Galaxy R
But you see its NOT my Galaxy R
Heh, you wouldn't like my boffs, and my doffs, ... and my equipment. ... And neither my weapons. I'll better note not to invite you to my ships.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 28
06-29-2012, 01:19 AM
We could come over with some gifts (spacial charges) and help you de-assimilate your crew deck if you like (one of my best officers makes a mean martini)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,211
# 29
06-29-2012, 01:19 AM
I run a Kar'Fi in the STFs, and I found that Tyken's Rift works sufficiently well to drain all types of enemies. Most NPC ships don'T fly very fast, so despite the fact that nothing at all is dragging them down, they keep getting caught. And when the engine power is gone, they don't move anymore. (But the power won't last that much longer either) In PvP, Tyken's Rift needs someone tractoring your enemies. I figure it may be rather potent with the Danube Tractor Spammers.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,881
# 30
06-29-2012, 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
We could come over with some gifts (spacial charges) and help you de-assimilate your crew deck if you like (one of my best officers makes a mean martini)
Uhm, no, thanks. I'm fairly content with my efficient crew and technologies. And I fear none of my officers could appreciate the Martini.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mustrumridcully0 View Post
I run a Kar'Fi in the STFs, and I found that Tyken's Rift works sufficiently well to drain all types of enemies. Most NPC ships don'T fly very fast, so despite the fact that nothing at all is dragging them down, they keep getting caught. And when the engine power is gone, they don't move anymore. (But the power won't last that much longer either) In PvP, Tyken's Rift needs someone tractoring your enemies. I figure it may be rather potent with the Danube Tractor Spammers.
I see, but isn't still the fact that I couldn't drain borg structures against it. Also it shares a CD with GW and Tachyon beam. Maybe... could it drain engine power so well I could use it instead of Gravity Well?
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
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