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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,627
ok, strangely enough, there are retrofits and fleet versions of many low tier ships now. the retrofits seem to be in line with ships like the current galaxy R, intrepid R, and excelsior R, and the fleet version is simply a better version of many of the available ships. the problem is they are introducing 2 of the same ship with slightly different stats at the same time, and its all rather insane.

in the past, retrofits were tier 4, or tier 3 advanced ships. now this includes non-advanced tier 3 and most tiers 2. the fleet ships include most tier 2 through tier 5 ships

i'll go over what is listed in the stats, and what i think would make more sense, or be more consistent.

Fleet Escort Refit:

Commander - Tac
Lt Commander - Tac

Lieutenant - Eng
Ensign - Eng

Lieutenant - Sci

Engineering: 3
Tactical: 4
Science: 2

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 3

Turn: 16
Hull: 27600
Crew: 50
Device Slots: 2
Shield Mod: 0.7

the price is 200,000 fleet marks, all that dilithium you have grinded since season 4 is no good here, you have to start over grinding something else now. the carrot on the stick has been swamped with an even bigger juicer carrot. yet again a curency in sto is left behind and rendered useless. no sign of it having a c store price on this version ether. its a small basic ship without a console, with below average stats because of its size, 1400 c-points sounds reasonable.

the difference with the fleet escort (saber, not to be confused with the now called patrol escort) is as follows

Engineering: 4
Tactical: 4
Science: 2

Turn: 16
Hull: 30360
Crew: 50
Device Slots: 2
Shield Mod: 0.77

the price is 20,000 fleet marks and 1 other token of some kind

some ships will exist having an old retrofit version and a fleet version, but does that really call for there needing to be 2 versions of this uprated tier 2 ship? thats crazy. they both seem only gettable through the fleet shipyard, yet one is more fleet then the other? it would be 1 thing if 1 was clearly c store and the other was clearly fleet store. the saber isn't the only example of this, the nova, cheyenne, and olympic also share this confusing existence. only the fleet nova comes with a LTC tactical station, that at least sets it apart from its more pedestrian retrofit.

i say do away with the new retrofits, and have only fleet versions of these low tier ships at tier 5. let the tier 4 and advanced tier 3 be the only retrofits.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 2
06-30-2012, 05:21 PM
Well the good thing is, there is no daily limit on how many you can get. Bad thing is, you get around 20 marks a match so it is bittersweet. I'm just looking for a Galaxy-X Retrofit...

Where art thou?

The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,627
# 3
06-30-2012, 06:58 PM
ok on to some problems i have with station setups and such

Fleet Escort Refit:

Commander - Tac
Lt Commander - Tac

Lieutenant - Eng
Ensign - Eng

Lieutenant - Sci

Engineering: 4
Tactical: 4
Science: 2

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 3

Turn: 16
Hull: 30360
Crew: 50
Device Slots: 2
Shield Mod: 0.77

if you want to fly a sabor at end game, now you can. its shields are worse then stock tier 5 escorts, but it is a small inferior ship to begin with. being more general purpose, its console lay out should be 3/3/4, theres no reason to assume its particularly engineering heavy. or it should have a LTC eng station, a counterpart to the fleet nova having a tactical LTC. that is an example of a pattern not being followed

Fleet Patrol Escort

Commander - Tac
Lt Commander -Tac

Lieutenant - Eng
Lieutenant - Sci
Ensign - Uni

Engineering: 4
Tactical: 4
Science: 2

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 3

Turn: 16
Hull: 34100
Crew: 200
Device Slots: 2
Shield Mod: 0.99

this one seems fine. its got the beter amount of consoles, better hitpoints and shield mod, and a universal ensign station. i think every single person is going to use that universal for engineering though, so thats kinda pointless.

i would give it

Commander - Tac
Lt Commander -Tac

Lieutenant - Eng
Lieutenant - Uni
Ensign - Uni

the fleet tier 5 ships should be all about user's choice in all but the core station type.

Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit:

Commander - Tac
Lt Commander -Tac

Ensign - Tac
Lieutenant - Eng
Lieutenant - Sci

Engineering: 3
Tactical: 5
Science: 2

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 3

Turn: 17
Hull: 33000
Crew: 50
Device Slots: 3
Shield Mod: 0.9

that 5th tactical console could be so damaging that i would not change a single stat from the standard retrofit, make the only difference be that 5th tac console.

UPDATE


Fleet Aquarius Destroyer:

Commander - Tac
Lt Commander - Tac

Lieutenant - Eng
Lieutenant - Uni
Ensign - Uni


Engineering: 4
Tactical: 4
Science: 2

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 2

Turn: 16
Hull: 26400
Crew: 50
Device Slots: 2
Shield Mod: 0.72

just added to the store last patch, the odyssey's pet escort. note that it only has 2 aft weapons, and a universal TL and ENS station. this is hopefully as close as the feds get to a BOP. its hitpoints and shield mod are the lowest of any fed tactical ship, and its turn rate is 16. 16? really? a ship about half the volume of a defiant has a turn rate of 16? i would have picked... 20. at first i though this might be a toned down bug ship based on the stations, but the rest of the stats just suck. the dominate part of me is glad such a fricken tiny ship has such limited stats.

Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier

Commander - Tac
Lieutenant - Tac
Ensign - Uni

Lt Commander -Eng
Lieutenant - Sci


Engineering: 3
Tactical: 4
Science: 3

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 3

Turn: 15
Hull: 35200
Crew: 200
Device Slots: 2
Shield Mod: 0.99
Hanger Bay: 1

well now this is in the fleet store, minus the armatige and thunderchild costumes, you have to buy those from the c store for it to look like that. still has the hanger, just has more hitpoints now and a sci console. i wish the saber had that station setup, it would be nice to have in a ship that also didn't come with a hanger bay.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 07-06-2012 at 10:21 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,627
# 4
06-30-2012, 06:59 PM
Fleet Research Science Vessel Retrofit:

Lieutenant - Tac
Lt Commander -Eng
Commander - Sci
Lieutenant - Sci
Ensign - Sci


Engineering: 4
Tactical: 2
Science: 4

Weapons
Fore: 3
Aft: 3

Turn: 13
Hull: 28050
Crew: 400
Device Slots: 3
Shield Mod: 1.22

this is getting kind of ridiculous, a 3rd science ship with a LTC engineering? this is the nerdiest science ship. it should have the nerdiest, all sci stats of any sci ship in the game.

Ensign -Eng
Lieutenant -Eng
Lieutenant -Eng

Commander - Sci
Lt Commander - Sci

Engineering: 3
Tactical: 2
Science: 5

there, different from just another ltc eng sci ship, and also haveing the most sci consoles, as a posed to this next ship, the original eng heavy sci ship

Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel

Lieutenant - Tac
Lieutenant - Eng
Ensign - Eng

Commander - Sci
Lt Commander - Sci


Engineering: 3
Tactical: 2
Science: 5

Weapons
Fore: 3
Aft: 3

Turn: 11
Hull: 31350
Crew: 500
Device Slots: 3
Shield Mod: 1.43

heres another already tier 5 ship with a fleet version. all these engening heavy sci ships need thier own niche, it should be a more general purpose do as you like sci ship, like i did with the patrol escort

Lieutenant - Uni
Ensign - Uni

Lieutenant - Eng
Commander - Sci
Lt Commander - Sci


Engineering: 3
Tactical: 3
Science: 4


Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit:

Lt Commander - Tac
Lieutenant - Eng
Commander - Sci
Lieutenant - Sci
Ensign - Sci

Engineering: 2
Tactical: 3
Science: 4

Weapons
Fore: 3
Aft: 3

Turn: 14
Hull: 27390
Crew: 100
Device Slots: 3
Shield Mod: 1.11

the plucky little nova. i guess if any sci ship is to get a LTC tactical it should be this one. looks fine to me EDIT- actually, it doesn't look fine, its only got 9 consoles. opps

Fleet Recon Science Vessel

Lieutenant - Tac
Ensign - Tac

Lieutenant - Eng
Commander - Sci
Lt Commander -Sci


Engineering: 2
Tactical: 4
Science: 4

Weapons
Fore: 3
Aft: 3

Turn: 13
Hull: 29700
Crew: 350
Device Slots: 3
Shield Mod: 1.43

another tier 5 fleet. heavily tactical is nice, but needs that more flexible universal station treatment.

Lieutenant - Tac
Lieutenant - Uni
Ensign - Uni

Commander - Sci
Lt Commander -Sci



Fleet Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit:

Lieutenant - Tac
Lieutenant - Eng
Commander - sci
Lt Commander -Sci

Ensign - Sci

Engineering: 3
Tactical: 3
Science: 4

Weapons
Fore: 3
Aft: 3

Turn: 12
Hull: 29700
Crew: 200
Device Slots: 3
Shield Mod: 1.43

the very scientific intrepid seems fine. but, im gonna have a little fun with this one, give it a layout that suits the canon intrepid a bit better.

Lt Commander - Tac
Lieutenant - Eng
Ensign - Sci
Commander - sci
Lieutenant -Sci


Fleet Advanced Research Vessel

Lieutenant - Tac
Lt Commander -Eng
Commander - Sci
Ensign - Sci
Lieutenant - Uni

Engineering: 4
Tactical: 2
Science: 4

Weapons
Fore: 3
Aft: 3

Turn: 9
Hull: 34650
Crew: 750
Device Slots: 3
Shield Mod: 1.43

and finally the versatile nebula. besides the vulcan ship, THE engineering sci ship. a bit unimaginative, but fine
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 06-30-2012 at 07:06 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,627
# 5
06-30-2012, 07:00 PM
Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit:

Lieutenant - Tac
Ensign - Tac

Commander - Eng
Lt Commander -Eng

Lieutenant - Sci


Engineering: 4
Tactical: 3
Science: 3

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 4

Turn: 8
Hull: 39600
Crew: 500
Device Slots: 4
Shield Mod: 0.94

ah, an old favorite of mine, id much rather use this then the excelsior. its about comparable with the standard assault cruiser, just has an extra console. there still isnt a 'science excelsior', and wile i firmly believe this ship deserves the excelsior station layout, and the excelsior should have a sci LTC instead, at least 1 of these ships should have it.

Lt Commander - Sci
Commander - Eng
Lieutenant -Eng
Ensign - Eng

Lieutenant - Tac


Fleet Assault Cruiser Retrofit

Lt Commander - Tac
Lieutenant - Tac

Commander - Eng
Ensign - Eng
Lieutenant - Uni

Engineering: 4
Tactical: 4
Science: 2

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 4

Turn: 7
Hull: 42900
Crew: 800
Device Slots: 4
Shield Mod: 1.1

woah, fly on odyssey with a tactical LTC station and wish you had more engineering stations? well here you go. a very focused tactical/engineering ship, with science being optional. but for a ship thats only really good at using beam arrays, 5 tactical stations are a bit of a waist. that 7 turn rate would make using even single cannons difficult. it seems like they swung for the fences and didn't mess around when they came up with this, wile they were very conservative with most of the other ships. if it were me, this would be the sov's stations

Commander - Tac
Lt Commander - Eng
Lieutenant - Eng
Ensign - Eng

Lieutenant - Sci

i would also increase every version of the assault cruiser's turn rate to 9

Fleet Star Cruiser:

Lieutenant - Tac
Commander - Eng
Lt Commander - Eng

Lieutenant - Sci
Ensign - Sci


Engineering: 4
Tactical: 2
Science: 4

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 4

Turn: 7
Hull: 42900
Crew: 1000
Device Slots: 4
Shield Mod: 1.1

the obvious question is, why isn't this the opposite of the assault cruiser? replace the tactical stations with science and make tactical optional, that would be consistent at least. but, if it were me i would stat it the same way i stated the assault cruiser

Commander - Sci
Lt Commander - Eng
Lieutenant - Eng
Ensign - Eng

Lieutenant - Tac

Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit:

Lieutenant - Tac
Commander - Eng
Lt Commander -Eng

Ensign - Eng
Lieutenant - Sci


Engineering: 5
Tactical: 2
Science: 3

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 4

Turn: 6
Hull: 44000
Crew: 1000
Device Slots: 4
Shield Mod: 1.1

i HATE these stats. if theirs 1 thing cryptic cant do, its give the poor galaxy a fair shake. this fixes none of the galaxy R's problems, and just piles on a few hitpoints. this ship will be the ship of inaction, not being able to heal as well or deal damage as well as every other cruiser choice. it will simply be hard to kill. its as close to experiencing what its like to be an npc as possible. go check out the fleet negvar, the ship closest to the galaxy R. it has a universal ensign, 5/2/3 consoles, a cloak, and a 9 turn rate. the gap between them grows ever larger.

i was giving the tier 5 turned fleet ships the universal station heavy setups, but the galaxy is a better fit to receive such a setup then the heavily focused assault and star cruiser. this cruiser should split the difference between them, and be primarily engineering but from there lean ether way you like, but not lean nearly as far as you can in the focused cruisers.

Commander - Eng
Lt Commander -Eng

Lieutenant - Uni
Lieutenant - Uni
Ensign - Uni


Engineering: 4
Tactical: 3
Science: 3

there is already a cruiser with 5 engineering stations, opp odyssey. if they think another is needed, give it to the eventual ambassador, which should proboly have stats like this, same as the negvar.

Commander - Eng
Lt Commander -Eng

Lieutenant - Sci
Lieutenant - Tac
Ensign - Uni

Engineering: 5
Tactical: 3
Science: 2
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 06-30-2012 at 07:11 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 194
# 6
06-30-2012, 07:13 PM
Wait, the 'Patrol' Escort gets a uni ensign it doesn't need while the ships that do need them get overlooked?
Having trouble with ground STFs? Looking for help?

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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 265
# 7
06-30-2012, 07:18 PM
so are those the actual stats on the fleet defiant refit?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 484
# 8
06-30-2012, 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit:

Lieutenant - Tac
Ensign - Tac

Commander - Eng
Lt Commander -Eng

Lieutenant - Sci


Engineering: 4
Tactical: 3
Science: 3

Weapons
Fore: 4
Aft: 4

Turn: 8
Hull: 39600
Crew: 500
Device Slots: 4
Shield Mod: 0.94

ah, an old favorite of mine, id much rather use this then the excelsior. its about comparable with the standard assault cruiser, just has an extra console. there still isnt a 'science excelsior', and wile i firmly believe this ship deserves the excelsior station layout, and the excelsior should have a sci LTC instead, at least 1 of these ships should have it.
I was disappointed by this, I too was hoping for a bit more science, and allot more maneuver.

..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 9
06-30-2012, 08:11 PM
Honestly, I never understood why Cryptic thought it might be a good idea to make every Cruiser in the game a "flying brick". This is space we're talking about after all. An object in motion, tends to stay in motion. We've seen both the Galaxy and Sovereign Class perform vastly more agile maneuvers than anything capable in STO.

If you want to keep the "flying bricks", then I suggest the following:

No ship in the game should have a lower turn rate than:
Cruisers: 10
Tactical: 14
Science: 12

No ship in the game should have a higher turn rate than:
Cruisers: 14
Tactical: 18
Science: 16

Engine Batteries, and Evasive Maneuvers (as well as various Engine-buffing abilities) should be able to effect your Turn Rate. An Assault Cruiser for example should be a cross between an Escort and a Cruiser in terms of both mobility and fire power. Something which NO version of the Assault Cruiser has currently been able to achieve.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,302
# 10
06-30-2012, 08:26 PM
The more I get to know the Fleet system, the more I think they better go back to the drawing board. Especially with the Fleet Ships.

For starters, they make Fleet ships +2 over old school T5 ships. And forcing players into fleets if they want the best ships. Which will be a major factor in PvP (providing it will be still existing in the next couple of months).

Second is the C-store ships, in giving us better ships than what we spent $20s on. Which pretty much now is $20 for a new ship skin and a console.

Third, 200,000 Fleet credits for ships? So that just makes things even more complicated. Now players gotta spend months grinding?



I'm disliking this new system more and more everyday. It's really turning STO into more of a grindfest than any MMO I've ever played in. At least they could do is revise the system to where you level up with your ship and you pay to upgrade it.
NO to ARC!

Season 9.5 = STO's NGE is Here! Welcome to the Grind!
Expansion 2 - Delta Rising: Welcome to Tier 6, where everything is now obsolete. Have fun with the new Crafting!

Last edited by azurianstar; 06-30-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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