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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 11
07-02-2012, 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skhc View Post
That's the point I'm trying to make. Your request in isolation is not unreasonable. But saying that just because you pay for the game you should get the ship you want, is. If everyone does that, and Cryptic satisfy them, we'll end up with a frankly ridiculous amount of variants.
I am asking for a simple fix to a ship that is weak compared to its cousins. If anyone can build up a case for a ship class being weak compared to others of its kind, but they still want to fly it anyway because it's part of their identity, then they should be accommodated within reason.

They have to come up with a reasonable argument as to why they think their ship is broken and needs fixing. Any if other players agree with that argument through their own experience, it makes the argument stronger.

You need to look up the slippery slope fallacy and understand that because I want A (an improved fleet Galaxy), some players may end up wanting B (an improved other ship), but that doesn't necessarily mean that players will want or should be given Z (an insane ubership).


Okay Cryptic, this is how the Fleet Exploration cruiser should be:

4 engineering consoles.
3 Tactical consoles
3 Science consoles

Cmdr. Engingeering
Lt. Cmdr. Engineering
Lt. Tactical
Lt. Science
Ensign. Universal


Now the ship can be as useful as the standard Assault Cruiser or standard Star Cruiser.

The Fleet Star Cruiser should have the Fleet Assault Cruiser treatment with a Lt. Cmdr science boff. Then the Fleet Galaxy doesn't step on any toes at the fleet level, yet it is a versatile jack of all trades and master of none.

Last edited by fulleatherjacket; 07-02-2012 at 07:16 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 12
07-02-2012, 07:12 PM
Still needs a Turn Rate increase of 1-2 points, but i'd say that should be across the board for all Cruisers.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 765
# 13
07-02-2012, 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meurik View Post
Still needs a Turn Rate increase of 1-2 points, but i'd say that should be across the board for all Cruisers.
Indeed. A 2 point bump across the board for cruisers would be a nice improvement.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,542
# 14
07-02-2012, 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulleatherjacket View Post
Okay Cryptic, this is how the Fleet Exploration cruiser should be:

4 engineering consoles.
3 Tactical consoles
3 Science consoles

Cmdr. Engingeering
Lt. Cmdr. Engineering
Lt. Tactical
Lt. Science
Ensign. Universal


Now the ship can be as useful as the standard Assault Cruiser or standard Star Cruiser.

The Fleet Star Cruiser should have the Fleet Assault Cruiser treatment with a Lt. Cmdr science boff. Then the Fleet Galaxy doesn't step on any toes at the fleet level, yet it is a versatile jack of all trades and master of none.
this is a more then reasonable compromise, this is what the fleet negvar is getting, only it has a 5/2/3 setup.

and the galaxy, alone in a vacuum, does not need a turn rate buff. if it alone was given 2 more turn rate it would suddenly have the turn rate of the excelsior, and turn better then the sovereign.

cruiser turn rates need to be raised all at once, as in EVERY cruiser getting a plus 2.



the fleet star cruiser should also have the opposite setup the sovereign has, at least for the sake of symmetry. this galaxy R can easily take the place of the current proposed fleet star cruiser, that has the exact same station setup.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
# 15
07-02-2012, 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
cruiser turn rates need to be raised all at once, as in EVERY cruiser getting a plus 2.
Ehm, nothing against making my oddy move when I want her to, but what about science ships?

They would end up with pretty much the same turn rates while having much less hull (and 2 less weapons - but one may well argue those are likely supposed to be compensated by sensor analysis and subsytem targeting).
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Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 16
07-02-2012, 09:23 PM
Rear Admiral (and above) Science Vessels are currently at Turn Rates 9-13, with the slowest being the Nebula (a Cruiser/Science ship), and the fastest being the Luna (Recon Science)

Rear Admiral (and above) Cruisers are currently Turn Rates 6-8, with the slowest being -any- Vice Admiral Cruiser (Galaxy and variants, Odyssey and variants), and the fastest being the Sovereign (Assault Cruiser)

Bringing Cruisers up by 1-2 points, would still put them behind Science on turn rates. If a Nebula is currently at 9, then a ship based on the same era/technology, with more mass could conceivably have a Turn Rate of 8 (Galaxy). The Odysseys being the largest ships in the Fleet, could get a 1-pt bump, while the rest of the Cruisers get a 2-pt bump (imho).
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 17
07-02-2012, 10:00 PM
An increase of 1 to all Fed cruiser turn rates would be more than enough.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
# 18
07-03-2012, 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meurik View Post
Rear Admiral (and above) Science Vessels are currently at Turn Rates 9-13, with the slowest being the Nebula (a Cruiser/Science ship), and the fastest being the Luna (Recon Science)

Rear Admiral (and above) Cruisers are currently Turn Rates 6-8, with the slowest being -any- Vice Admiral Cruiser (Galaxy and variants, Odyssey and variants), and the fastest being the Sovereign (Assault Cruiser)

Bringing Cruisers up by 1-2 points, would still put them behind Science on turn rates. If a Nebula is currently at 9, then a ship based on the same era/technology, with more mass could conceivably have a Turn Rate of 8 (Galaxy). The Odysseys being the largest ships in the Fleet, could get a 1-pt bump, while the rest of the Cruisers get a 2-pt bump (imho).
I really don't think that any cruiser should surpass any sci ship in manoeuvrability (the sci carrier Atrox put aside).
What I could imagine is the two least manoeuvrable sci ships (deep space and nebula) getting +1 and then all of the cruisers getting +1 as well. Then the ranges will become 10-13 and 7-9.

Still I'd preffer if even the other 2 sci ships benefited somehow, say half a point each (there are tenths listed on tribble now).

EDIT: That's FED side clearly, there would need to be changes done to KDF as well.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Design that long overdue Tier 5 C-Store Raptor
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 750
# 19
07-03-2012, 08:15 PM
I just noticed that the fleet heavy cruiser refit (cheyenne) has three tactical consoles and 8 weapons. So, a crappy awful kitbashed ship that used magic markers for warp nacelles is given more offensive power than the fleet Galaxy class?

Cryptic, YOU'RE KILLING ME HERE!

Last edited by fulleatherjacket; 07-03-2012 at 08:19 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,997
# 20
07-03-2012, 08:38 PM
Yeah, its killing me as a Sovereign Captain because it uses the same layout as the Sovereign.

So it gives me the impression with the Sovereign Refit having a completely different build than the Sovereign, that they are forcing us Sovereign Captains to fly the Cheyenne or keep our old Sovereign.


This is one of many reasons why Cryptic should drop the Fleet system as is and revamp it to where players could upgrade their ships to how we want it. So Galaxy Captains can put in that Third Tactical Console than that Fifth Engineering Console. Or Qin Raptor Captains can ditch the Tactical Ensign slot for an Engineering Ensign without needing to suddenly be a Somraw Captain.
NO to ARC!

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