Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 11
07-05-2012, 03:09 PM
I don't think this will work...

There's a new fleet starting to PvP every week, and one leaving. The majority of pvp'ers are in fleets, but it's often 1-man fleets, or at least one-pvper fleets like mine.

In addition, many of the fleets out there, including some of the good pvp fleets, are mainly non-english speaking. :/
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 225
# 12
07-05-2012, 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716maikai View Post
i really do like the idea of a monthly meeting, but honestly. i dont think itll get you anywhere.

until cryptic itself starts to make balance changes nothing is going to matter for pvp.
the kdf alliance chat channel in game and vent outside of game used to have meetings regularly and send the conscensus data to cryptic. there is nothign wrong with a "hardcore pvper" meeting. but be realistic with expectations

+1 signed
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 13
07-05-2012, 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mettlemicky View Post
Ok read all your posts, and get the jist. Hey cant blame someone for trying. So I guess its just down to each individual to do what they think is right.

Still gonna pew pew and see how many I can take out b4 the wave of spam comes and the players pets get one over on me...... I kinda enjoy saying "good game pet, teach ya host how to pvp" ;p

thanks for response all
I get where your coming from having matches sans the BS is much more fun then with the BS.

The best matches I have had lately are mostly interfleet... interfriend matches... where we agree before hand to not run any p2w... and mostly leave the carrier junk out of the matches. Just don't see every one agreeing to not use the BS all the time in public.

I guess I'm saying find more matches in Opvp... perhaps when we ask for premades and there is no answer we should move on to asking who wants to jump into a no BS match with semi balanced sides.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 53
# 14 Idk
07-06-2012, 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mettlemicky View Post
I know several things have been tried in the past to try and unify (please excuse my spelling left school over 20 years ago ;p) all the fleets that pvp as premades, hell even if fleet members go pug.

I know, and im sure you all do, the thread Naz set up "fleet directory" where each fleet posted their contact details, time zones etc etc, and the latest one 4monkeys set up to try and unify the community. Can we all of us just arrange a meeting place in game on a set date to say what is acceptable and what is not in regards to stuff used in pre-mades and hell even if we go pug?

The way I see it, is that the majority of pvp'ers all belong to a fleet of some sort, so if the majority all stick to the outcome of propposed meeting, would that not mean that the majority of the PvP community are keeping it within the agreements, spreading the word to other pvp'ers old and new.

Majority of pvp comunity following agreement = more and more enjoyable matches = more and more pvp'ers

So lets all say sod it, bury grudges if any, man up, attend meeting, follow out come of meeting.

I proppose set the meeting one month from now, give everyone plenty of notice to ensure they can attend:

1) Max of three members per fleet attends,
2) If not in a fleet come on your own,
3) Items that can be used in pvp all voted on, simple aye or nay, vote carries forward,

It really is as simple as that. If you all care about PvP in STO then lets at least give it a shot, the more that sign up, the more chance of this succeding. Yea there are gonna be idiots that sod it ill use what ever, but the majority CAN make a differnce.

Hell ill even host the meeting if needed, just say the word.

PLEASE REPLY ONLY IF YOU ARE IN FAVOUR AND AT LEAST WANT TO GIVE IT A TRY
The problem I see is what is, and who decides what is OK and what is not. Example some guy tried to explain it to me like this (The plus one ships that cost 2000-4000cp are OK but a AMS or any universal console is P2W). Now I maybe just the odd crazy man out, but am I really to believe it is OK for a player to spend 2000-4000cp on a ship that has an advantage on all other ships of the same type in the game. And am I further to believe that just because a ship console is not universal it should not be considered "Pay To Win" When the meaning of Pay To Win is something paid for with real life monies that allows a person with the means to afford that item to have an advantage over someone that can not do so. My thought is the same as many in my fleet if you roll any pay to win be it cstore ship, lock box ships, or cstore console we will use ours as well. If you want a clean fight we will be more then happy to do that too.

On another note if your in a bug, oddy, or carrier escort you are P2W your ship have advantages that you paid for. So if you cry about my AMS from your oddy all I am going to do is LOL @ U. Because my AMS only cost me 320cp and apparently it is so OP compared to that oddy that it is considered more P2W "some how" looks like you got ripped off.

Last edited by warlordsob; 07-06-2012 at 01:17 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 734
# 15
07-06-2012, 03:04 AM
We tried that once, over a year ago.

A bunch of people from different fleets jumped onto LF's Vent.

Pretty much nothing has changed since then, except for the fact that nearly everyone has bailed and balance has gotten worse.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 812
# 16
07-06-2012, 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post

I guess I'm saying find more matches in Opvp... perhaps when we ask for premades and there is no answer we should move on to asking who wants to jump into a no BS match with semi balanced sides.
Sounds like a good idea.
I used to be called MustrumRidcully, but then I got a dyslexic to my knee. I'll fix the signature pic later Insights into STO that should be assembled together
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,400
# 17
07-06-2012, 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warlordsob View Post
The problem I see is what is, and who decides what is OK and what is not. Example some guy tried to explain it to me like this (The plus one ships that cost 2000-4000cp are OK but a AMS or any universal console is P2W). Now I maybe just the odd crazy man out, but am I really to believe it is OK for a player to spend 2000-4000cp on a ship that has an advantage on all other ships of the same type in the game. And am I further to believe that just because a ship console is not universal it should not be considered "Pay To Win" When the meaning of Pay To Win is something paid for with real life monies that allows a person with the means to afford that item to have an advantage over someone that can not do so. My thought is the same as many in my fleet if you roll any pay to win be it cstore ship, lock box ships, or cstore console we will use ours as well. If you want a clean fight we will be more then happy to do that too.

On another note if your in a bug, oddy, or carrier escort you are P2W your ship have advantages that you paid for. So if you cry about my AMS from your oddy all I am going to do is LOL @ U. Because my AMS only cost me 320cp and apparently it is so OP compared to that oddy that it is considered more P2W "some how" looks like you got ripped off.
I have no issues with Paying for ships that the other side has, in a way. For example, the Klingon Side of the game has the Vor'quv. Which is the First TRUE Carrier in STO. And for the LONGEST time was the ONLY Carrier in the game. The Development, despite many stated "NO" answers to "Will the Federation get a carrier?" Released one to the C-store. The Atrox. The Atrox is barely any different from the Vor'quv with the exception of Bridge officer lay out, and Pets allowed to both ships. Do I agree with the decisions on this release, or the way some of the pets were created? Absolutely not. But it's here. And it helped point to a severe problem: Chronoton Procs and Mass Tractor Beam spam.

Is the Atrox Pay to Win? I argue that it is not because it is no better then the Vor'Quv. The same could be said for many of the ships themselves released to the C-store with the exception of the +1s in the lower tiers and a few of the newest Tier 5+ ships released. Which is where the Odyssey+, Bortasqu, Marauder, Nebula-R and the Armitage, for example, come in.

Why are those Classed as P2W? Because they each have something more then any ship normally has of those levels. Weither it's because of an Extra console slot, Extra Bridge officer slot, or because of a Hanger Bay that no ship of it's class has, those are the true P2W Ships.

As I said to you before when we discussed this. Buying a single ship is completely different from abusing something that can be used on ANY ship. Especially when that object, when transfered from one ship to another VASTLY improves it's play style, and capibilities far beyond the original design of the Ship you currently Fly.

The Universal Consoles do just that. Weither it's AMS, Plasmonic Leech, or even the Grappler, it still gives your ship something beyond it's normal load out and even extra powers beyond what your Bridge officer set up, and Equipped Items grant you.

Don't believe me? Just look to the Klingon side of things. Look at how many on the KDF side uses Plasmonic Leech, Vent Theta Radiation, Isometric Charge, and the Aceton Assimilators. Now look at the Vor'quv with Plasmonic Leech, Aceton Assimilators, Power Siphon Drones, and Polaron Weapons.. Would you REALLY want PVP to all look like that? To always be fighting something like that? Take off the Aceton Assimilator and Plasmonic Leech, and you have something slightly more managable. The Power Siphon Drones are still nasty, but at least the ship it's self isn't adding more to it with out powers like Tyken's Rift, or Viral Matrix (Sort of).

Consoles that are only allowable to be slotted on specific ships (Defiant/Galaxy-X Cloak, Odyssey/Bortasqu Console Sets, Ablative Armor, etc) I don't personally feel are Pay to win themselves because they can only be used on one ship. And are apart of what that ship is supposedly capable of doing.

In closing, Common Sense should be used when deciding for yourself what P2W truelly is in PVP. If it's something when used by a team of 5 different ships makes that team superior, or at the very most makes the match EXTREMLY low on fun and challange, it may just very well be Pay to Win. And personally I don't want to see too much of it used by fleets that call them selves the Best of the Best. Because frankly why does the Best of the Best need something that is already going to quite possibly guarentee a win, when their whole Premade team decides to Equip it vs the Pugs that roam the Ques?
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,926
# 18
07-06-2012, 03:53 AM
we don't need a meeting of people that honestly don't represent anyone other then them selves, we need people with the common decency to not run any carriers, and not run any pay to win consoles, the ones that came from the tier 2-4 ships. EVERYTHING else is fine, well, maybe not the bug ship. it is laughably better then every alternative.

there is currently no lolfaw, no lolscramble, and lolglider and lol shield drain is a shadow of its former self. active roster kinda flushes balance down the toilet, but since everyone has them they have just created a new normal.
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 19
07-06-2012, 09:42 AM
It's a noble idea, but sadly it's not going to change anything. Fleets and individuals hold grudges. If i turned up at the meeting and said "Okay, I swear to you all that my fleet will never use anything P2W again, ever. Cross my hear and hope to be poked in the eye by a renegade boomerang!" But I cant and wont. I have no say over what my fleet members use/play, if they want to spend ?35ish pounds on the oddy pack then go for it and enjoy it, if they want to pay the money they have earned into a ship with a console, who and I to say they cant use it? We're not a dictatorship - though I do use fleet members for organs and back scratching.

All that said, nobody in the PVP community regardless of experinece or fleet loyalties has the right to say what should or should not be allowed, and making a council of players to take the PVP ring to Mordor or whatever can change that
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
I have no issues with Paying for ships that the other side has, in a way. For example, the Klingon Side of the game has the Vor'quv. Which is the First TRUE Carrier in STO. And for the LONGEST time was the ONLY Carrier in the game. The Development, despite many stated "NO" answers to "Will the Federation get a carrier?" Released one to the C-store. The Atrox. The Atrox is barely any different from the Vor'quv with the exception of Bridge officer lay out, and Pets allowed to both ships. Do I agree with the decisions on this release, or the way some of the pets were created? Absolutely not. But it's here. And it helped point to a severe problem: Chronoton Procs and Mass Tractor Beam spam.

Is the Atrox Pay to Win? I argue that it is not because it is no better then the Vor'Quv. The same could be said for many of the ships themselves released to the C-store with the exception of the +1s in the lower tiers and a few of the newest Tier 5+ ships released. Which is where the Odyssey+, Bortasqu, Marauder, Nebula-R and the Armitage, for example, come in.

Why are those Classed as P2W? Because they each have something more then any ship normally has of those levels. Weither it's because of an Extra console slot, Extra Bridge officer slot, or because of a Hanger Bay that no ship of it's class has, those are the true P2W Ships.

As I said to you before when we discussed this. Buying a single ship is completely different from abusing something that can be used on ANY ship. Especially when that object, when transfered from one ship to another VASTLY improves it's play style, and capibilities far beyond the original design of the Ship you currently Fly.

The Universal Consoles do just that. Weither it's AMS, Plasmonic Leech, or even the Grappler, it still gives your ship something beyond it's normal load out and even extra powers beyond what your Bridge officer set up, and Equipped Items grant you.

Don't believe me? Just look to the Klingon side of things. Look at how many on the KDF side uses Plasmonic Leech, Vent Theta Radiation, Isometric Charge, and the Aceton Assimilators. Now look at the Vor'quv with Plasmonic Leech, Aceton Assimilators, Power Siphon Drones, and Polaron Weapons.. Would you REALLY want PVP to all look like that? To always be fighting something like that? Take off the Aceton Assimilator and Plasmonic Leech, and you have something slightly more managable. The Power Siphon Drones are still nasty, but at least the ship it's self isn't adding more to it with out powers like Tyken's Rift, or Viral Matrix (Sort of).

Consoles that are only allowable to be slotted on specific ships (Defiant/Galaxy-X Cloak, Odyssey/Bortasqu Console Sets, Ablative Armor, etc) I don't personally feel are Pay to win themselves because they can only be used on one ship. And are apart of what that ship is supposedly capable of doing.

In closing, Common Sense should be used when deciding for yourself what P2W truelly is in PVP. If it's something when used by a team of 5 different ships makes that team superior, or at the very most makes the match EXTREMLY low on fun and challange, it may just very well be Pay to Win. And personally I don't want to see too much of it used by fleets that call them selves the Best of the Best. Because frankly why does the Best of the Best need something that is already going to quite possibly guarentee a win, when their whole Premade team decides to Equip it vs the Pugs that roam the Ques?
I don't see the carrier as one of them +1 ships hints why I didn't include it in my op. And I never said console are not P2W I think they are, my point is so are +1 ships so if the other team has any P2W I put my console in.
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