Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 668
# 21
07-06-2012, 10:17 AM
Its hard to argue with The Warlords logic... cause its sound. Pretty much all the cstore ships (with a couple exceptions) are much better then other ships. They are hard core p2w.... in fact the consols come from lower tier ships that are much better then their counter parts as well. (cryptic just had to find some reason for end game people to purchase)

I think the real issue is the consols are just plain annoying for the most part.

Comes down to how we word and look at things I guess. Most of us are ok playing matches with p2w.... we just don't like consol p2w.

If I where a 100% pug player... I have to say I would find the p2w QQ funny in my fleety when I would run into a fleet premade that has no "p2w" but is sporting 2 bug escorts... a vulcan sci ship... and a couple oddies.

Anyway point I was making if there was one... we have all turned to the dark side. Time to admit it. We all love our Cstore ships... those of us that have Galors and Bugs and even marauders like em and want to use em... Those that don't have are in defiants escort carriers intrepids and oddies. Klinks are flying goombas, and bortas fat boys... cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria! ....

Its time we stop arguing about consuls... and PUSH hard who ever takes over PvP in this game to have all consuol abilities TURN OFF for PvP... and to have a couple of them (defiant cloak, intrepid abladive) go back to ship based powers, not consul ones.

In my view its a win for them it makes the cstore ships that make them much more money more valuable for PvP... and still allows me to load all my crap to beat up borg.

Last edited by husanakx; 07-06-2012 at 10:21 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 297
# 22 well said warlord!
07-06-2012, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warlordsob View Post
I don't see the carrier as one of them +1 ships hints why I didn't include it in my op. And I never said console are not P2W I think they are, my point is so are +1 ships so if the other team has any P2W I put my console in.
Your original post is excellent, and your last point was a statement I made not as eloquently in another thread about "clean running", which was immediately teased in our very first match of the night yesterday against mutliple p2w spam.

Arawn - SOB
OP *is* the new balance!
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 23
07-06-2012, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warlordsob View Post
I don't see the carrier as one of them +1 ships hints why I didn't include it in my op. And I never said console are not P2W I think they are, my point is so are +1 ships so if the other team has any P2W I put my console in.
So when I see you flying that Odyssey you enjoy flying it's fine for me to fly my Armitage + Advanced Danubes.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 24
07-06-2012, 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by husanakx View Post

I think the real issue is the consols are just plain annoying for the most part.
I have, on various occations, been heard calling them Pay2Grief consoles.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 53
# 25 Hehe
07-06-2012, 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dassemsto View Post
I have, on various occations, been heard calling them Pay2Grief consoles.
That's the free oddy buddy I' am getting close to my pack though took awhile seeing how I will never give cryptic any more money.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 26
07-06-2012, 11:16 PM
I still don't get why PvPers hate the whole, P2W thing. Not to be blunt or anything but calling it P2W is all BS.

The Devs put it in the game for us to use, so we use em.
We can't use ship from the C-Store because that is P2W?
Just because you don't like them doesn't mean you should prevent others from using it.

It is just my opinion. If someone can give a VALID reason why items bought are bad then please explain

(Also, if you give a reason that not everyone can afford it, I have two words, Dilithium Exchange)

Those items where used in Star Trek so I want to live the Experience.

Edit - I believe the real problem you guys are having is the learning curve. Out of all of STO only 10% (most likely less) PvP and out of those PvPers only MAX 25% have truely mastered the art. I hate that the players have to come together to solve something the Devs should handle. We can't fix this. It is up to the Devs. We have to put faith in them to properly fix it that will please everyone (We all know you can't always please anyone).

The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up

Last edited by starcommando101; 07-06-2012 at 11:23 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 29
# 27
07-07-2012, 03:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starcommando101 View Post
I still don't get why PvPers hate the whole, P2W thing. Not to be blunt or anything but calling it P2W is all BS.

The Devs put it in the game for us to use, so we use em.
We can't use ship from the C-Store because that is P2W?
Just because you don't like them doesn't mean you should prevent others from using it.

It is just my opinion. If someone can give a VALID reason why items bought are bad then please explain

(Also, if you give a reason that not everyone can afford it, I have two words, Dilithium Exchange)

Those items where used in Star Trek so I want to live the Experience.

Edit - I believe the real problem you guys are having is the learning curve. Out of all of STO only 10% (most likely less) PvP and out of those PvPers only MAX 25% have truely mastered the art. I hate that the players have to come together to solve something the Devs should handle. We can't fix this. It is up to the Devs. We have to put faith in them to properly fix it that will please everyone (We all know you can't always please anyone).


Im not even gonna go there
Tex says...... hey
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 373
# 28
07-07-2012, 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mettlemicky View Post
Im not even gonna go there
Quoted for the wisdom... I think I will join you in that
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 29
07-07-2012, 08:13 AM
no please enlighten me, I don't get it

no troll or anything
The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 226
# 30
07-07-2012, 09:00 AM
This talk of P2W is all fine and good, but where do you draw the line? Rare doffs? You can get them for EC, but they can come out of the C-store too. By the same token, C-points can be had for Dilithium. It's really Pay or Grind to win. If you've got a job you can afford to spend on something you invest a lot of time in, and the return on it's better than beer, going to see a movie etc. And if you haven't got a job, you've likely got enough time on your hands to spin up some dilithium. With a little patience it soon mounts up.

I also think it'll be very difficult to come to a consensus. There are some individuals and fleets who you can almost count on to be using the latest FOTM power or console that is generally considered OP. Look at the ammount of people cruising with Danubes, I don't think anyone who's got a good handle on PVP and a healthy absence of bias would say phaser procs, chroniton procs and back to back tractor beams are a balanced carrier pet.

As others are mentioned, we can't work around balance issues since not everyone'll stick to it. It's the dev's job to make sure these balance issues do not crop up, and on the one hand, there's a very long track record of our feedback being utterly ignored. However, recently, there's been a seemingly renewed interest in fixing PVP. Gozer was having a look at it, and Borticus recently made a thread about resolving the Chroniton issue. Even this level of attention, over time, will pay off and leave us with a better balanced PVP. It's easy to be jaded after all the PVP community has been through, but if these new signs of help from the Devs are to become a precedent that is maintained, I think we're going to have to set cynicism aside, however hard it is, and meet them half way.

I'm not giving up on PVP just yet, and sure, you'll get cheesedick builds with people spamming danubes and rocking phasers and chroniton torps on their ship, but those kind of people only stay good as long as they've got their crutch. And with a little luck, and continued interaction from the Devs, those crutches will be kicked out from under them one by one. Just hold on a little longer, change is blowing in the wind. If I think of more cheesy clich?s I'll let you know, but I've about met my quota for now I think.
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