Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6
I've been doing STFs now for a short time and mostly mix-matched groups and one constant thing I've noticed is the amount of arrogance and ignorance from some team members. I see a lot of the following:

1. Do only as I tell you or get the hell lost.
2. learn to do these before you decide to screw everyone (Or Me) over
3. it's called conforming your gear to what I tell you to.
4. When you're finally ready to do as I say and stop wasting time I'll start helping out again
5. Read the walkthrough before playing STFs so you won't screw us again.

while that's not all they are the most common ones I've seen and the sad part is the people that I see with one of these in this list usually has all of these Traits, the "I'm so much better then you, so you better dam well do as I tell you to" type player. Now admittedly I'm not the best STF player, I can complete them 90% of the time unless all but one other player drops out but when in ground STFs I almost never get the optional and space tends to be a 50-50.

As an example I was doing the cure space (Normal) and 4 of the five team members were protecting the kang leaving me to do the rest of the objectives, one ship against 18 nanite probes and 3 cubes not to mention the random ships that attack me after spawning. and somehow it's my fault for failing the optional for not taking out everything fast enough. explain to me how that makes sense?

My Main issue with these types of people is that they always blame everyone else for the shortcoming in either actually completing the STF or the optional. These people also believe every character should mirror what's "Demanded" of them gear wise and skill wise. sorry but I'm not going to do a full respect just to do STFs nor am I going to swap out my entire gear set that I've not only been using for awhile but am good at using.

A player should not have to fully conform to skills\weapons\Kits\ armour and shields just to do a specific set of three missions over and over And alot of players out there believe one does and rags other users as Noobs for not doing it and thus as a result of an optional or STF fail it automatically becomes that players fault regardless of circumstances even if it is in no way that players actual fault. it's frustrating to go into one of these missions and have nothing but a single player yelling at everyone for the smallest thing. Whatever happened to good sportsmanship? or team players or for that matter HAVING FUN. I get people want to get the optional for the accolades and potential rare items and borg salvages, I really do understand wanting to get them but I'm not going to go ballistic for not getting them. (though it is a little frustrating to have to fail an STF for lack of players or failed main objective)

The other main thing that annoys me is players telling new people to read the walkthrough and conform their character to what it says if they want to do the missions right or do them at all for that matter. Hate to tell you people but there is more then one way to win an STF and so instead of yelling at them and calling them retarded and stupid for not knowing what they're doing why don't you spend a little time to HELP them by explaining in a POLITE way how they can help. because lets face it, telling them to go read a walkthrough which doesn't always work doesn't help you in the here and now in the mission.

the only other thing that gets me and I've only had this happen once so far are the players that sit there and go "You guys suck I'm not going to help at all but I'm not leaving so I can tie up your fifth slot so no one else can help you. I want you to fail" how arrogant can you be to pull this crap? because now you're not only wasting our time and your time the worse part is if we complete the STF you get free stuff for sitting on your ass and doing nothing. Not fair as many will say.

Now I understand I'm likely going to get yelled at by some people for a post like this but if you're one of those players listed above here's some tips for you.

1. they're called fleets for a reason. many fleets out there specialize in STFs and work hard to get their optional and wins, and they work together very well and are frequently looking for others like minded in winning.
2. Friends are also a wonderful benefit if they can help.
3. Play elite where most the players do know what they're doing and do it well.
4. Be polite and Friendly, other people will be more willing to listen and seriously take your recommendations for gear and skill sets\kits
5. if you have an issue with a player or players and don't want to help you are free to leave the map at any time so we are not messing you up.
6. Teach new players how to play in a polite and friendly way so that when you play with them again in the future you know they know what to do.

Remember when you started doing STFs and had to figure everything out? some of these people are in that boat and yelling and being abusive is a good way to turn them away from doing these missions and in some cases the game itself and that is a loss to the entire community.

This is supposed to be a friendly game people and one where players help others in both learning and practical use. can we just leave the arrogance and ignorance off the bridge and away teams? there are many tactics and ways to beat any STF no one way is the perfect must do way and yelling at players is no way to get anything done better in fact it only hurts the team more. I'd love to be able to teach my girlfriend how to do these missions without some A-Hole yelling profanities, insults and suggestions on how to F off because she didn't do what they wanted her to do in the nano second of them telling her.

And as said above, some people are good with certain gear sets, Sure one is better for a specific task then another but isn't the whole point of being in a team and working together to be diverse and adaptable to the situation with what they have on hand? I could be wrong but if an STF required a specific item or kit to complete the mission wouldn't we have to actually have it first to even be allowed to take it? Bluntly put there is no real right way to do an STF as long as the overall outcome is mission completion, optional or not.

So if you're like a player I've described above you might want to consider that you are the problem not the others. some are there for the fun of it and may only be there to get something simple like a data chip you get for simply winning it. not everyone has the same agenda as you and not everyone takes it mega seriously like you do.

and if you disagree, you can kindly beam off my team and find another who's more like minded then you.

I apologize if this offends people but by the same token I don't like being offended in STFs by "Elite" players. I know what to do in them even if I don't do it your way. remember, your way is not the only way.
~Jade
Formerly:
Jagged_Jade on the forums
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 2
07-06-2012, 09:57 AM
we were all new at one time. i think it is much more fun to be nice rather than be mean.

good post.
http://startrek.44thfleet.com/
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 53
# 3
07-06-2012, 10:56 AM
I've been in 3 STFs so far. I have not gone lately because nobody I have flown with does what is supposed to happen on the missions. The tree times i attempted where on Infected Space (reg). EVERY TIME I have entered this STF the other four pug people I am with just start going after whatever they think is the best target after killing the first cube and spheres. The walkthrough states to go to the right or the left and start on the first sub generator thingie. Well I see people just flying around attacking THE MAIN GATE! I am new and know next to nothing about STFs but I do know that this is WRONG. This has happened for every three times I have gone in one.

I have tried asking in chat about this tactic and and I get nobody typing back.

Havent tried again in months. There is equipment I need (borg shields) from these STF's.
How am I supposed to get it if everyone I have flown with so far A. Ignores my questions, B. flies around shooting whatever with no tactics at all... and C. Frustration.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 399
# 4
07-06-2012, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by morgansmith View Post
Havent tried again in months. There is equipment I need (borg shields) from these STF's.
How am I supposed to get it if everyone I have flown with so far A. Ignores my questions, B. flies around shooting whatever with no tactics at all... and C. Frustration.
Find Mates to fly with you, no need for an entire group, but 1-2 people having the same goal helps alot.
Either use one of the Userchannels for it, or just ask on forums/zonechat (though avoid DS9 Zone ... results may not be "nice").
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,007
# 5
07-06-2012, 11:09 AM
I'm afraid you're preaching to the choir, not the sinners. If you search the forums (You'll have to go over to google to do so since STF is a three leter word and you can;t search for it here) you'll find that this is a common complaint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadebgreen View Post
As an example I was doing the cure space (Normal) and 4 of the five team members were protecting the kang leaving me to do the rest of the objectives, one ship against 18 nanite probes and 3 cubes not to mention the random ships that attack me after spawning. and somehow it's my fault for failing the optional for not taking out everything fast enough. explain to me how that makes sense?
This happened to me a couple of days ago. Four ships went to the right, I hung back and poked at the other two. Killed the left, did all the ships and spheres on the middle one while they were still working on the spheres on the right one.

The weird thing is that we did get the optional. I didn;t get squat out of it though.
---
Took 20 minutes to get that screencap and her arm is still doing through the armrest
Dr. Mike's Steak Dinner

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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 6
07-06-2012, 11:14 AM
My (limited) Experience of Elite Ground STF (I am not after the maco gear so i do these only to back up someone else) shows that the optionals are failed most often because of one of three things


1 Someone shouting orders to everyone else provokes a "screw you" response and we go a man down

2 Someone who only speaks German / french / russian can't comm with the others (not his fault really)

or 3 (and this one is plain silly ) Some complete Riker in fully speced out gear and optimised skills tells someone ELSE to Take point or Tank damage and they CAN'T
because they are speced out for a different role (Science officers who are not "heal slave" mode or Engineers who are not speced for "Riot shield" mode)
if the Riker (A term for "over paid , over sexed , over here" types ) took the damage himself rather than weeping about "DPS " we would win the optional

Incidentally our success rate on these is curently 75% (3 out of 4) for optionals
This is an improvement
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 180
# 7
07-06-2012, 02:43 PM
I agree that typically those reading these threads are people who also know what it's like to play with new players or to have things fail due to angry players or folks with poor attitudes. Perhaps we'd be better served by trying to brainstorm things we, as players, could do to help us help ourselves OR generate design ideas for the UI/game engine to try to alleviate these issues?

Granted I am doubtful that we'll get much dev input or even attention, if previous threads are any indication.

Is there even a place to post UI design suggestions that anyone would take seriously?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
2 Someone who only speaks German / french / russian can't comm with the others (not his fault really)
This is a big issue, in my opinion.

It is not the players' faults. I do NOT expect players from other countries to also be proficient in reading and typing English like I am. I sure can't join in if my teammates are having a conversation in German, for example, to look at it the other way. The fact that many do know English is a fortunate thing for me, but I know there have had to have been plenty of runs where the chat was empty 'cause of language differences and not just silent players. However, since we are all on one huge shard for STO, there's no way to segment by preferred language in PuGs.


I'm not really sure what I can do to try to address it, either. Though if the game engine DID have a means to queue for teams in a given language, that would have the potential to being pretty helpful in PuG group formation. At least it would be a step in the right direction (though there have been some excellent players of various nationalities I've played alongside, so I would miss out on that).



I can say that STO helped me learn what "hilfe" meant really quickly, though.

edit for below post:
Yeah, that was the joke, since people are always yellin' that when down in ground STFs.
_______
equal parts cynical and helpful

Last edited by synkr0nized; 07-06-2012 at 02:54 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 8
07-06-2012, 02:50 PM
Hilfe = Help

incase anyone doesn't know
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 9
07-07-2012, 04:57 AM
In regards to language differences. . .

I think it would *help* if they gave some sort of indicator. Perhaps say a few words in their language, give some indicator they don't speak English. It would be less frustrating that way, because at least they have a good reason/excuse for not communicating. Some random dude just flying around blasting stuff at random and being completely unresponsive in chat, while actively screwing with the plan, is incredibly frustrating.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 399
# 10
07-07-2012, 05:52 AM
I must admit "language barrier" is not an excuse for dumb play.
But I will not use the "you had english at school"-card, I play the "there is enough info on the net in your language"-card.
Germany for example has a nice little page, completely in german, with Walkthroughs etc.
The STOwiki-articles are quite well translated in different languages via Google translator (at least Italian and German).

It's not there aren't sources to look up, it's just players not caring at all. They don't care for others either ...
(but like flaming alot I'm afraid).

And "everything" is not an excuse for being harsh to anyone, without reason (and no, missing an optional is not a reason).

As a sidenote, Diablo 3 has a nice little hotkey-way of communication, one of the few things I really like of this game.
You have basic sentences like "Take this", "I need help", "Follow me" etc. just one keystroke away.

If anyone needs a mate to play STFs together, give me a call. I'm not that great at socializing though

Last edited by thoroon; 07-07-2012 at 05:55 AM.
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