Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,725
# 11
07-08-2012, 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
The trouble with this is that many players dismiss their old
ships as soon as they upgrade to a new class.
I hadn't dismissed mine. I still have them all. Including the starter one, before I could do to Space Dock to swap it out for my Original Constitution.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,642
I just took my T2 Connie out of shipyard and into Infected Normal Space and I was the only ship - NOT - being blown up!!

She's loaded with M12 purples and Maco Shields/Def + Borg eng - but still can keep pace with Sov's who's captains are clueless!

I actually had to leave as it was never going to be done with players chasing spheres all over the map instead of focasing on the nanites - and of course no-one follows the 10% easy rule - a must rule for Elite
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 13
07-08-2012, 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevach View Post
Not really. It's more like using a Vietnam-era warship in the modern military. The 1701 and the 1701-D use the same type of power generation, the same construction materials, and the same weapons. For that matter the NX-01 is only of the set on weapons.

Of particular interest is the hull material: Like certain real-world ceramics, it's strength can be increased immensely by passing stronger energy fields through it. Its strength isn't in its metallurgical properties, but in how much power you can run through it to hold it together. The Enterprise-D would sag under its own weight, and its engines would plow through the frame if not for those energy fields, and Voyager took stresses a thousand times ones that nearly destroyed the Enterprise-D, supposedly on its improved integrity fields.
They don't have the same type of phasers and the don't have the same strength. Galaxy has standard type X and can be ugrade to type XII phaser arrays. The Constitution has only uses type VIII.

Just because the Warp core on the Enterprise-A look similar to the warp core used in Enterprise-D doesn't mean that the have the same performance. The Enterprise-D had two warp core upgrades on the TNG.

Material wise, the Galaxy has the greates density of all the canon ships in Star Trek. The Constitution has 1/6 the density of a Galaxy. Also if you recall the the battle on Star Treck II the Enterprise-A was almost cut in half by phaser fire at the neck of ship. A few more second of that volley and the Enterprise would of been in two pieces. On Star Trek VI a photon torpedo blasted all the way through the sauser section with the shields up. The Excelsior got hit the same exact way and the torpedo did't penatrate.
The only way the Enterprise-D was damage and lost in "Generations" was the the Klingons cheated and found the shield frequency modulation and set there weapons to it. They way the shield could not protect the Enterprise. Even at that the was nothing blasting straight through and most of the damage was internal. The coolent leak was what cause the warp core to go critical.


Voyager on the other hand, is the worst example or a starship Star Trek had to offer. I watched every episode from beginning to end. It was the only ship out of all shows that got bested by fighters and shuttle crafts. They had the worst of all outcomes loosing amlost 200 of their crew, due to weak shields and combat inefficiency. I counted 3 hits on every episode during battles and the shields would go down. The bridge would get trashed in every battle. What so great and advanced about that. Their circutry would get sick because its made of biologic nerons. The only reason the show didn't get put off the air was because the ratings they got after bringing Jerry Ryan to the show. Puting her in a skin tight suit to show her breast firmness and body parts to make fans sexually fantasize and coming back for more. If it wasn't for her part in the show, Voyager would of gotten cancelled just Enterprise did. People don't want to see a show full of defeatist and humans getting beat up by alien forces all the time. The always need to be heros like Kirk, Picard, Riker, Warf, Sisco, and Data. Voyager lacked that and was the most disfunctional ship I have ever seen. Its captain wanted to mother everyone and save everything. LT Com Tuvok was in Starfleet for 60 years and just got promoted to LT Commander? That is not an example of a great officer. He should of been a Fleet Admiral by the time Voyager came along. The helmsman was always getting into trouble and the chief engineer was nothing but a ball nerves. Alway beating up people and threatening them. Commander Chakotay was the only one with his head on straight.

Lets not use Voyager as a comparison to any other Ship or show in Start Trek.

Last edited by alexindcobra; 07-08-2012 at 04:51 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4
# 14
07-08-2012, 07:06 PM
I could go on about my disappointment with Voyager for hours...

With regards to getting old ships to fly 'well' in newer scenarios I think having some kind of Upgrade System for older ships would be nice - train your engineer, produce an upgrade which adds more Console slots or uprates your Bridge Officers, for example. I mean, look at the Enterprise-D. Geordi La Forge damn near hot rodded the thing over time. Why not 'evolve' our ships? They're missing out on a huge thing with the Duty/Bridge Officer system there.

Hell, if PWE doesn't want players to just craft ship upgrades they could even add a Ship XP system where over time your ship "levels up" and BECOMES the vaunted Retrofits you want so badly. Or maybe not. But they still wouldn't have the Consoles if you did that, and people could buy the ships for that. Or for the skins. Hell, they could make money just selling skins, but right now the game is very "pay to win."

Somewhat related - everyone in this thread might find this video interesting:
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/power-creep
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 185
# 15
07-08-2012, 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
We have mission where we have to use our shuttlecrafts and fighters, but we don't have missions that requiring us to use our old, lower tier ships. A lot of our other ships are just collecting dust and some of us would like to use them or see them in action.
Nobody is stopping you from using those ships, if you want a pacific mission for a pacific tier ship simply look at your journal and see what the recommended level is for a mission then use the appropriate tier ship for it and crank up the difficulty for a half decent challenge.

Most fun can be had with mates or with your fleet "role playing" some of the older missions in lower tier ships.

At the end of the day it is an mmo game, they are designed to make your own fun if you want games to hold your hand and tell you what to do I wouldn't recommend playing mmo's as you will get board fast....


Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Voyager on the other hand, is the worst example or a starship Star Trek had to offer. I watched every episode from beginning to end. It was the only ship out of all shows that got bested by fighters and shuttle crafts. They had the worst of all outcomes loosing amlost 200 of their crew, due to weak shields and combat inefficiency. I counted 3 hits on every episode during battles and the shields would go down. The bridge would get trashed in every battle. What so great and advanced about that. Their circutry would get sick because its made of biologic nerons. The only reason the show didn't get put off the air was because the ratings they got after bringing Jerry Ryan to the show. Puting her in a skin tight suit to show her breast firmness and body parts to make fans sexually fantasize and coming back for more. If it wasn't for her part in the show, Voyager would of gotten cancelled just Enterprise did. People don't want to see a show full of defeatist and humans getting beat up by alien forces all the time. The always need to be heros like Kirk, Picard, Riker, Warf, Sisco, and Data. Voyager lacked that and was the most disfunctional ship I have ever seen. Its captain wanted to mother everyone and save everything. LT Com Tuvok was in Starfleet for 60 years and just got promoted to LT Commander? That is not an example of a great officer. He should of been a Fleet Admiral by the time Voyager came along. The helmsman was always getting into trouble and the chief engineer was nothing but a ball nerves. Alway beating up people and threatening them. Commander Chakotay was the only one with his head on straight.

Lets not use Voyager as a comparison to any other Ship or show in Start Trek.
Come on thats a bit harsh isn't it, Voyager isn't a war ship for starters where as the Enterprise in most cases is a flag ship. There supposed to be different shows lol there not supposed to be the same. I enjoyed Voyager but thats just my opinion obviously it is different to yours.

Also if it wasn't for Voyager there would be considerable less tech available to the Star Trek universe let alone content as it brang a fair bit to the table.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 16
07-08-2012, 09:55 PM
It doesn't matter if Voyager was a warship or not. Her captian prided her as a Federation warship yet she couldnt take 3 hits. Even if the ship was a cruiseliner it was a disfuctional ship.

The tech that came from Voyager was mostly from the future or from an alien race. I'm sure any other ship could of bumbled into the same technology sooner or later.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2
# 17
07-10-2012, 04:55 AM
I often will use my Oberth with my Science Toon to collect traces/anomolies.
But I do like the idea of maybe a mission which requires a certain type of ship to complete the mission. Maybe some kind of fleet mission which in order to have the optional completed or something like that, you require a Tier 2 Sci ship for example.
Although I'm quite certain that there would be difficulties in the execution of this in game. it's just something I was mulling over.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,298
# 18
07-10-2012, 05:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
It doesn't matter if Voyager was a warship or not. Her captian prided her as a Federation warship yet she couldnt take 3 hits. Even if the ship was a cruiseliner it was a disfuctional ship.

The tech that came from Voyager was mostly from the future or from an alien race. I'm sure any other ship could of bumbled into the same technology sooner or later.
Okay - don't get me wrong, I am not the biggest Voyager fan out there. I like it, but it's not my favorite of the Trek series.

Even so - Voyager couldn't take three hits?! We saw EXACTLY what Voyager could take in 'Year of Hell' - she was barely in one piece (and almost uninhabitable) but she was still firing torpeodes up until the very end, when Janeway rammed her into the Krenim timeship.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 392
# 19
07-10-2012, 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyan01 View Post
Okay - don't get me wrong, I am not the biggest Voyager fan out there. I like it, but it's not my favorite of the Trek series.

Even so - Voyager couldn't take three hits?! We saw EXACTLY what Voyager could take in 'Year of Hell' - she was barely in one piece (and almost uninhabitable) but she was still firing torpeodes up until the very end, when Janeway rammed her into the Krenim timeship.
I'm going to have to agree with this.

Sure, in the day to day combat, Voyager appeared to have a glass jaw. However, you have to consider that some of that was purely for entertainment value.

Year of Hell painted a completely different picture of the Intrepid class. While it had suffered extraordinary damage, it was still afloat, still managing minimal life support and functionality (accomplished with just a skeleton crew as you might recall) and still took more hits before being rammed into the Krenim ship.

My theory on the survivability of the Intrepid class, is because of it's overall shape and design. Frankly, the Intrepid is a flying brick with a pointed end. There are no weak points in the hull, due to it's shape. No neck section to exploit, small, minimalist nacelle pylons, and alot of mass compacted into a small area.
The account formerly known as C_Carmichael
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"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack. I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,313
# 20
07-11-2012, 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevach View Post
Well, it's old ships retrofitted up to tier 5. Not really the same, and leaves a lot of holes (no tier 1 ships, and holes in tiers 2-3 all over the place).
No he means that they talked about requiring T2-4 ships for specific queue-able missions/fleet actions.



Like a scenario that required the TOS Enterprise and you'd face off against a massive armada of Klingon ships from the same era.
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