Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 899
# 1 Upgradeable BOff stations?
07-07-2012, 06:16 PM
Having read and participated in quite a few threads on ship tier revamps, I thought I'd add my input on a specific matter.

I'm a Tac player who joined the game with the initial goal of commanding my own Intrepid-class vessel, and whilst in retrospect I didn't mind the lower hull strength, and fewer weapons/consoles/devices slots compared with higher tier ships, I was somewhat disappointed that the BOff stations were strongly geared towards science careers. I ended up flying an Oddy most of the time instead.

I'm aware of the current two schools of argument that ostensibly supports the current system, although I don't necessarily agree with them:

  • "Any career can fly any ship - if you're a Tac in an Intrepid, screw your Tac skills, focus on your Sci abilities."

  • "You shouldn't be flying ****ty ships at VA 50 - you'll ruin my STF/PvP the instant you warp in, you loser noob troll. Go get an Oddy or a Defiant."

I'm also aware that there are players who play this game for the sheer experience of captaining their favorite ship, and whilst there are a few trolls out there who would deliberately use underpowered ships to sabotage team games, most of them are legitimate and want to simply play through all the episodes in the ship they want.

And of course, there's the RPers...

My suggestion

I'm proposing, for a hefty price, the ability for players to reconfigure any ship's BOff station layouts, allowing them to choose any combination of careers and ranks available. To allay concerns that I'd "ruin PvP/STF/balance" with this, the upgrade would be limited by rank.

Example One
Robin is currently at Lt. Cmdr. with an Nova-class. At his rank, the highest rank any BOff station would be Lt., and he would be limited to just 5~6 BOff powers to divide amongst the stations he is allowed.

Example Two
Robin is now VA 50 with an Intrepid as his main rig, and various other ships for the occassional STF. The highest rank of any BOff station he can have is Cmdr., and he has the maximum of 12 BOff powers to distribute amongst whatever stations he chooses.

Thoughts?

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,303
# 2
07-07-2012, 06:33 PM
It would be nice in theory, but if you did that in practice you'd end up with a ton of minmaxing, 3 cmdrs or 4 lt. cmdrs, or ships with the speed and firepower of an escort plus cruiser tankiness or sci healing, stuff like that. The results would be a game full of those frankenstein superships someone asks for on these forums once a week or so. The other thing is that the ships as they are now, their varying boff layouts give them what little character they have, and that would just vanish instantly.

As it is the game isn't perfect and we can't usually match up to the shows, but to do something like this, particulalry over 2 years after launch, would just make a HUGE mess of everything. You'd end up having to restructure the entire ship system almost from scratch to compensate, and toss out half the c-store besides. A little more versatility would be nice I definately agree, but what you're asking for would probably end in a grade-A cluster****.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 899
# 3
07-07-2012, 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
It would be nice in theory, but if you did that in practice you'd end up with a ton of minmaxing, 3 cmdrs or 4 lt. cmdrs, or ships with the speed and firepower of an escort plus cruiser tankiness or sci healing, stuff like that.
I don't see anything wrong with minmaxing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
The results would be a game full of those frankenstein superships someone asks for on these forums once a week or so.
The only Frankenstein supership that I can think of is rjslegacy1's proposal for warp nacelles that fold up and combine to propel the ship at ultra-super transwarp and multiple shield layers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
The other thing is that the ships as they are now, their varying boff layouts give them what little character they have, and that would just vanish instantly.
There are plenty of other ways to retain "character" - for instance, each ship's weapons slots/hull strength/consoles could be retained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
As it is the game isn't perfect and we can't usually match up to the shows, but to do something like this, particulalry over 2 years after launch, would just make a HUGE mess of everything. You'd end up having to restructure the entire ship system almost from scratch to compensate, and toss out half the c-store besides. A little more versatility would be nice I definately agree, but what you're asking for would probably end in a grade-A cluster****.
Suricata's ship tier revamp was required much more extensive rework, and had the potential to be more overpowered, yet somehow many people were huge fans of his proposal.

I merely adapted a very small aspect of his ideas in lieu of everything else, and if you vehemently believe that would cause the whole game to spontaneously implode, then we might as well stop asking for any game updates altogether.

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 772
# 4
07-07-2012, 07:42 PM
There is nothing actually wrong with your proposal, but Cryptic would have to willing to overhaul their ship system (which they have shown no interest in doing to date).
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 899
# 5
07-14-2012, 04:41 PM
If I may hazard a guess, let us presume from a software engineering perspective that object-oriented programming (OOP) is involved.

Therefore, somewhere in the source code is a software "class" for defining the attributes of any ship in general (e.g. weapons slots, crew, hull strength, BOff station). For the most part, this cannot and does not need to be changed.

Each different, distinctive ship class in the context of Star Trek (e.g. Intrepid, Odyssey, Akira) is a software "object". Objects use classes as a template, and are populated with various attributes (e.g. Intrepid may have ForeWeaponsSlots = 3, Odyssey's ForeWeaponsSlots = 4).

Presumably, when a player buys a ship (e.g. an Intrepid), the software creates a new instance of the object specifically for that player - this allows the player to slot their own weapons and consoles without affecting somebody else's ship.

So the game UI as it stands allows you to change the contents of the slots, but not the number/properties of the slots.

In conclusion, to modify bridge officer stations, all that is required is a game UI that, after an appropriate Z-store purchase, allows players to effectively modify their specific instance of their ship object, without changing the generic ship "class". So I can merrily min-max my BOff stations on my Intrepid, while Joe Blogg's vanilla Intrepid isn't affected.

Howzat?

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots

Last edited by sumghai; 07-14-2012 at 04:57 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 6
07-14-2012, 05:12 PM
funny thing is you're complaining your tac captain cant do tac stuff in a science ship.


and all because of boff slots.


Now imagine being a science captain flying a science ship and having the devs nerf ALL your science abilities to the point where there is no more 'science' ship role.

welcome to STO post-F2P.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,567
# 7
07-14-2012, 05:18 PM
I have to say that I'd prefer it if the ships didn't have that level of customisation. I like the fact that certain ships are geared towards certain tasks. It makes sense that the Intrepid (one of my fave classes as well, sunghai) should be more science as it was designed specifically for science based purposes. In my mind the ability to change the stations is like bastardising the true intent and purpose of the ship. I love the Intrepid, but I'd hate to see it turn in to a warship.

In regards to PvPers, well, they're a particular bunch. After a few goes in PvP I decided I didn't like their elitism and I steer clear of it now. Unless you min/max you should probably steer clear of them, too. (I can see myself getting flamed for that...)

With STF, I've never seen anyone get ragged on because of what they fly in, but rather because of their ability. Before the mine system got broken by season 6, I used to fly STFs in a D'Kora, hardly the most popular ship in STFs, but I never got any grief from other players because they appreciated what I was contributing to the team effort. Which is what STF is all about, really.

Last edited by darramouss1; 07-14-2012 at 05:20 PM. Reason: Edited because I needed to learn grammar...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 899
# 8
07-15-2012, 03:56 PM
It seems to me that some feel that I'm asking for the devs to "nerf" science abilities or resurrect the age old argument pertaining whether the Intrepid should be a Sci ship or not.

What I'm simply saying is, for a hefty price, players can choose to reconfigure their BOff stations for their own ships without affecting those who prefer the defaults. The fact that there is a price should discourage everyone from doing it.

I'm not asking for more weapons or console slots or anything, either. (it's perfectly reasonable that Sci ships have less weapons than a Tac escort)

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,540
# 9
07-15-2012, 05:07 PM
What it sounds like is your not just asking for a full universal BOFF layout, but the ability to choose BOFF powers as long as it adds up to 12.

The ability to cherry pick BOFF abilities is simply too over powered. I hope I misinterpreted you.

I'm not a fan of the Universal BOFFS idea. First the BoP has a full universal BOFF layout, to accommodate this it gives up an Ensign and only has 11 powers, should there be a Fed ship that can do this I will say no, many Fed side say yes. The Aquarius attempts this and fails hard.

And if every ship has a universal BOFF layout it makes the universals far less special. Take the new Patrol Escort from Starbases (The old Fleet Escort got renamed Blockade Escort and the Patrol is the same Hull but upgraded) it has a Universal Ensign, this allows you to make it a Defiant, an Advanced or the Blockade, this one Ensign Universal adds plenty of flexibility and variety to the ship. It becomes one of the best designs in the game now. But there is still the Fleet Defiant (Tactical Escort) with the same old BOFF layout but with 5 tac consoles.

Infact the only ship left out of the T5 escorts is the Advanced Escort and the NX. Now I'm no fan of the NX, it was only added to the game to sell the Enterprise Era bundle IMO. But there is no Sci Heavy Escort anymore, considering I can get 2 C-Store ships the Defiant and the Armitage in Fleet flavours, I'm quite annoyed I can't get the Advanced Escort in a Fleet variant.

Oh yeah I suppose it's because I own the MVAE.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 899
# 10
07-15-2012, 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
What it sounds like is your not just asking for a full universal BOFF layout, but the ability to choose BOFF powers as long as it adds up to 12.
Only if they're VA 50. At lower ranks the total is lowered.

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
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