Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,283
# 11
07-08-2012, 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
I know that this post will be wildly unpopular, but here goes.

To my knowledge all weapons bar the turrets (and possibly dual beam banks) do not exist in the Star Trek universe. As this is a Star Trek game (and I'm a Star Trek fan) is really like to see them go.

Not only that, but the idea of a weapon that can fire in every direction, even to a side of the ship where it's not mounted, goes against common sense. If it could only fire in the ventral or dorsal aspects of the ship only then it would be a little more believable, but how can a rear mounted weapon fire to the front of the ship? (Dual beam banks are believable as they're forward mounted AND forward firing.)

Devs, please keep the game a little more believable and closer to canon and remove the turrets.

For angry and abusive posts, please read below...

Phaser banks being locked into a 180 arc goes against Cannon too. Phaser beam arrays are line of sight weapons, as long as there's nothing in their way it ca fire in that direction.


Turrets exist in Enterprise.


Your argument is invalid.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 307
# 12
07-08-2012, 10:41 PM
Perhaps our weapons in game are not simply the weapon and a turret. They could be an abstracted way of allowing you to equip a weapons system; e.g. the weapons, power conduits, targeting, etc. So equipping a turret is more that just a single gun, but several weapons that share a power source.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 96
# 13
07-08-2012, 11:05 PM
Enterprise-D had beam arrays, not dual beam banks. Enterprise and Enterprise-A had dual beam banks (see Star Trek II). Star Trek (2009) showed us what appeared to be cannons or turrets, either way, if one could exist the other can too since they are practically the same thing, the only difference being damage to rotation ratio. As for dorsal and ventral mounting, I thought is was implied that when you install a weapon into a slot, it is mounted ventrally and dorsally. If you had to have a set of slots for dorsal and a set for ventral, you would either have very few weapons, or unnecessary redundancy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 160
# 14
07-08-2012, 11:16 PM
Enterprise NX had a turret
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 15
07-08-2012, 11:51 PM
Watch Enterprise
Turrets are Canon (and Cannons haha)
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 16
07-09-2012, 12:07 AM
one thing to note, emitters. turrets being low power can be guided to emitters much like the other energy weapons. this seems to be one of the major weapon technologies involved with energy weapons in the trek universe.

actual source of the energy pulse doesn't have to be right at the emission point in lower power weapon arrays like turrets and beam arrays. higher energy output requires source to be at emission point or very close to it, resulting in progressively smaller firing arcs as energy output is increased.

in short, turrets are mislabeled in a way, but there's no one word that can cover precisely what they are, turret is close enough. energy sent to emitters located at various points on the hull to allow omni-directional fire. much like modern lasers or other energy forms can be piped anywhere to be emitted far from their source.

so turrets aren't actually mounted fore or aft, source would be mounted midway between all emitters. emitters would be installed on areas of the hull giving the clearest field of fire possible, auto switching to the next emitter if one becomes obscured as the target and ship moves.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 658
# 17
07-09-2012, 03:14 AM
Have you played around with other RTS games that follow the STO's 'weapon slotting' principle?

NEXUS: The Jupiter Incident had ships with numerous turrets but are arranged in pairs. Not all of them will fire at once.

I.e, a star cruiser there flown by the player could have 8 weapon slots, and there are 16 turrets on the 3D model.

If a target is 'below' the ship the lower turrets fire, and vice versa for the dorsal weapons banks.

I see that STO weapons likewise come in 'sets' to cover different engagement arcs - take the Odyssey for instance - there are beam emitters for different firing arc for its beam arrays, and the emitters do switch correctly if you swing gradually from upper fore to ventral aft phasers.

Turrets likewise could have given the same treatment for superior detail but most ships have only two turret firing points - the lack of firing points is somewhat problematic if you ever tried to run a cannon cruiser - it simply doesn't look as impressive as with a beam array loadout.

On a hypothetical actual STO ship I'd think the turret setup would be something similar to JJ Universe Trek. The USS Kelvin's turrets working alongside the beam arrays was definitely very impressive and something different from TNG era (BA & torps only).

As to why the Devs (ship modellers) didn't give turrets their own individual secondary weapon batteries but fire all from the same spot... it's a production decision.

Imagine having to hand-place a few dozen more hardpoints on each ship for turrets, and god forbid emplace canon numbers of torpedo tubes, it can be a nightmare to code and bugfix for them all.
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Last edited by carmenara; 07-09-2012 at 03:18 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,838
# 18
07-09-2012, 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmenara View Post
Have you played around with other RTS games that follow the STO's 'weapon slotting' principle?

NEXUS: The Jupiter Incident had ships with numerous turrets but are arranged in pairs. Not all of them will fire at once.

I.e, a star cruiser there flown by the player could have 8 weapon slots, and there are 16 turrets on the 3D model.

If a target is 'below' the ship the lower turrets fire, and vice versa for the dorsal weapons banks.

I see that STO weapons likewise come in 'sets' to cover different engagement arcs - take the Odyssey for instance - there are beam emitters for different firing arc for its beam arrays, and the emitters do switch correctly if you swing gradually from upper fore to ventral aft phasers.

Turrets likewise could have given the same treatment for superior detail but most ships have only two turret firing points - the lack of firing points is somewhat problematic if you ever tried to run a cannon cruiser - it simply doesn't look as impressive as with a beam array loadout.

On a hypothetical actual STO ship I'd think the turret setup would be something similar to JJ Universe Trek. The USS Kelvin's turrets working alongside the beam arrays was definitely very impressive and something different from TNG era (BA & torps only).

As to why the Devs (ship modellers) didn't give turrets their own individual secondary weapon batteries but fire all from the same spot... it's a production decision.

Imagine having to hand-place a few dozen more hardpoints on each ship for turrets, and god forbid emplace canon numbers of torpedo tubes, it can be a nightmare to code and bugfix for them all.
I run a turret Vo'Quv, and I will admit, firing broadsides or into my rear with a CSV looks neat. Not as neat as firing cannons/turrets into unshielded targets (did that in a fleet PvP once, one of the teams had to practically dismount for some reason I don't know) - however that reminds me a lot of SW or SG

Edit: How do you feel about that game, anyway? I watched a few videos of an SG mod for it on Youtube (and a BSG mod, for that matter), looked really good.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Dalo Lorn
DaloLorn, StarCraft 2 Roleplayer and proud of it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,100
# 19
07-09-2012, 03:36 AM
This is entertaining... tell more jokes please

Edit:

Also, Dual Beam Banks are mounted on ships like the Miranda and the Soyouz classes.
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Don't look silly, don't call it "Zen-Store" - Don't waste devs time, Post proper bug-reports

Last edited by anazonda; 07-09-2012 at 03:53 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 453
# 20
07-09-2012, 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post

I thought they were cannons? Even if they were turrets, surely they could only fire when the target is not obstructed by their own hull.


Oh, thank you or not being abusive about my thoughts, people. It is noted and appreciated.
Cannons are structurally mounted to the hull itself, forcing them to be forward-facing weapons. These were turrets.


And you're welcome.
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