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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
Excited for S6 and all the content around fleets and starbases. But, as is stands currently on tribble I am concerned about the way resources are contributed for fleet tasks. This quote from another player best sums it up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
of everything I've seen (most of which I think is good) - the first come first serve contribution system is IMO not a good method as it will allow for certain cliques within a fleet to monopolize Fleet Credit generation and as a result, will make a lot of what is 'provisioned' into the Fleet store unobtainable for some members who come in, WANT to donate (and earn Fleet Credits); and find that everything is full, and no further donations can be made.
I hope this catches the eyes of the right people currently developing the fleet system. I can see alot of problems coming up with this with in the fleet. where one person just decides to throw in everything needed and swamps up all the fleet marks and credits before anyone else has a chance to contribute.

Please think of something else like a pool where any fleet member can add to this pool (and recieve credit) but the fleet leaders then allocate from that pool to the tasks the fleet votes on doing first. Or something else other then "first come first serve"
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
# 2
07-03-2012, 09:43 AM
Just to add another idea with this, you have a system developed already with the fleet bank that allows fleet leaders to setup min and max limits of deposits and withdrawls per bank tab. In our fleet the bank tabs are named similar to fleet ranks so you gain access to more items in the bank as you earn rank in the fleet.

You could apply this system to the fleet stabase UI. setting min and max per person (or per fleet rank) allowed per 24 hour period. so everyone has a better chance to make a contribution and earn fleet marks. This way, someone cannot say they didnt have a chance to contribute, earn marks etc.

NOT a hard limit per person set by Cryptic! that is not good.

But, limits that are adjustable (like the bank system) which are a setting option the fleet elects to use (min-max). So in the case of smaller fleets with say, 5 people. They can still add unlimited resources per person. (they would opt not to use a Min-max setting since they have only 5 people). The same way we can elect not to use the min-max setting on fleet bank tabs)

Just another way to have a check in place, but not restrict the people/fleet that dont need it or want to use it. I like the "resource pool" method better, but with this you could perhaps use some of the system already developed for fleet bank tabs.

Last edited by accessdenied1; 07-03-2012 at 10:49 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 3
07-03-2012, 10:05 AM
This criticism got brought up A TON since the bases hit Tribble. Cryptic can't feign ignorance on this, they must know. How do fix it though, it's not so easy.

If you let the leadership set the limits, it'll still allow them to set the rules in the favor of their internal clique and for large public fleets it won't be different in the end than what we have now. This is not so easy to fix.

In theory you should always be able to fill stuff for special projects while you wait for the main projects. Maybe they should make it so more special projects can be run in parallel.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,748
# 4
07-03-2012, 10:36 AM
the main ones for me are the dilithium and bridge officer points. in over a dozen attempts i hardly get chance to add any as people are so quick. they certainly need a limit per attempt to give people an even chance.

limits adjustable by fleet leaders seem wise as well so they can set it dependant on the fleet size.

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,032
# 5 Season 6 Test Rewards?
07-03-2012, 11:18 AM
nevermind.
Handle: @kirian_darkstar
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries
Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,378
# 6
07-03-2012, 11:19 AM
Yeah, the flaws in the system are really becoming apparent.


Like said above, people rushing to contribute, leaving others without a way to earn fleet credits. So this is a major negative for large fleets, even for moderate-sized fleets.

The pigeonholed way of earning Fleet Merits by doing Fleet Events, which again means large fleets will be at a disadvantage since not everyone would be able to earn them. And small fleets with casual players be hurt with this too, since they won't have enough players to form teams to earn Fleet Merits.

Then there is the Fleet Ships, which are better than the C-store ships, which makes us wonder how Cryptic is going to earn income?

Also, given these ships are mainly upgraded Tier 2s and 3s, why don't they finally implement a ship upgrade system so we can level up with our favorite ships? And at Level 50+, those in fleets get a chance to unlock that 10th console slot and fleet buffs (Shields, HPs).

This also prevents Fleets having moments where people are passed over for ships (due to no ships being available and officers getting first pick).
NO to ARC!

Season 9.5 = STO's NGE is Here! Welcome to the Grind!
Expansion 2 - Delta Rising: Welcome to Tier 6, where everything is now obsolete. Have fun with the new Crafting!
Former PWE Community Team Lead
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,046
# 7
07-03-2012, 11:42 AM
I will pass the feedback along, but this is where Fleet Politics will come into play Fleet Leaders and Officers will probably want to establish some ground rules about contributions (and ship provisioning once that is unlocked).

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Brandon "BranFlakes" Felczer | Former Community Team Lead for Perfect World Entertainment
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17
# 8
07-03-2012, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
I will pass the feedback along, but this is where Fleet Politics will come into play Fleet Leaders and Officers will probably want to establish some ground rules about contributions (and ship provisioning once that is unlocked).

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Thank you for replying! I fear issues with the fleet politics solution. With some fleets being very large, monitoring everyone that contributes, and the only method for recourse being removal from the fleet will create additional problems. And this is for only the baddies that know there is a policy and dont follow it. Many fleets have members that dont pay attention to new policy right away, dont speak english but enjoy a soical group to play with etc. Those guys will just go about a normal day contributing not even knowing what they are doing is not "fair" for the other 400 plus people wanting to earn merits.

If you have 400 members and 10 keep sucking up all the fleet merits not listening to fleet policy what else can leaders do aside from remove them from the fleet? That will create problems for cryptic with tickets such as "I was in this fleet forever, contributed a ton of resources to the Starbase then they kicked me for helping!"

We need something in the fleet advancement system to decide how everyone will have a fair shot at contributing and earning fleet merit.

Last edited by accessdenied1; 07-03-2012 at 12:00 PM.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,165
# 9
07-03-2012, 11:58 AM
While I get the basic issue people are having, I can't imagine how the system could be restructured to be fairer.

Basically, the output of the Starbase projects come down to services and products. The only way to get either one is to contribute to projects and earn fleet credits in the process.

Let's face it, most people are interested in the fleet ships. So let's go with that.

Assume the fleet has managed, after many moons, to upgrade their shipyards to T5. In that time, everyone has earned fleet credits based on how much they contributed to the fleet. Let's use a fictional "Cap'n Skippy" as our example.

Skippy wants a particular ship. He's been faithfully contributing to the fleet and he's got a nice pile of fleet credits. Nobody can directly cheat him out of those credits. He could even form a new fleet and take the credits with him.

Before he can get the ship, a provisioning project has to be started to put the "schematics" or whatever in the fleet store. Skippy doesn't control which projects are in play, but he makes it known that he wants his ship.

Let's say for instance that Skippy's fleet doesn't want to provision a ship. Worst case scenario, he can't find another fleet to join that has a T5 shipyard and is willing to provision the fleet store. Skippy has every reason to feel a bit disgruntled, but at least he still has his fleet credits and we have to assume he will eventually be able to spend them on what he wants.

But suppose Skippy doesn't want to leave his fleet. His fleet doesn't want to provision the ship Skippy wants, they want to provision something different.

Skippy stops contributing because they aren't building what Skippy wants. Projects start moving slower. Generation of fleet credits slows down. Everybody else has burned through the fleet credits they had before, but Skippy's still sitting on a nice little pile of them and he's also sitting on the resources he's been stockpiling because they aren't building what Skippy wants. In particular, Skippy's got a big pile of fleet marks that are not in plentiful supply.

Skippy cuts a deal. If they'll start HIS project, he'll start kicking in his considerable resources on the other projects as well. Projects start moving quicker, generation of fleet credits speeds up. Once the fleet store has been stocked with his ship, Skippy's able to jump on it sooner because he's got credits banked up and ready to spend where everybody else is still catching up.

Granted, there are more holes in this scenario than a Romulan at a bat'leth tournament. But the case is the same... Skippy simply has more resources than anybody else because he's been grinding and contributing more, and nobody has the power to take it away from him. If his fleet continues to stonewall him, Skippy goes and forms a new fleet and takes his stockpiles with him. He's been slowed way down, but if he's going to grind one way or the other he may as well grind for his own fleet and have a better shot at what he wants.

The main thing I see is that this is going to put pressure on very large fleets to downsize. It's also going to create a lot of incentive for fleets to operate democratically. I would expect fleets to campaign and vote for the projects that everybody wants.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 226
# 10
07-03-2012, 12:03 PM
Heh and as I've mentioned in other posts about fleets and why I don't want to be in one, fleet politics is a main reason. I play to relax not be stressed with the whole thing as my past experiences have shown me. Advancement should be personal, never controlled by the whims of other players. It is a hassle for officers as well, even the fairest group gets accused if someone perceives a slight against them.

I've been on both sides of that wall, no fun on either side.

Dec/2008
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