Career Officer
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# 1 Cold Fusion real?
07-10-2012, 06:15 AM
According to this report from the European Union's Commission:

http://ec.europa.eu/research/industr...-report_en.pdf
(Page 23)

"ENEA, SRI and NRL have been involved within review programs in the US and in Italy. The main task was to demonstrate, on the basis of signals well
above the measurement uncertainties and with a cross check, the existence of
the excess of heat production during electrochemical loading of deuterium in
palladium cathodes. The target was achieved and the existence of the effect
is no longer in doubt."

And:

"The most intriguing feature of the phenomenon is the substantial lack of the expected nuclear emissions associated with the excess of power production ascribed to a deuteriumdeuterium nuclear fusion process."




WTF.
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Captain
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# 2
07-10-2012, 06:23 AM
honestly i don't understand what this means?
Career Officer
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# 3
07-10-2012, 06:32 AM
That means that the scientists from the European bureaucracy are convinced that cold fusion, the effect first observed by scientists Fleischman and Pons in 1989, is real.
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion )

After 1989, few scientists were able to reproduce the effect, so Pons and Fleischman were either called liars or ridiculed, as were all those who claimed they had confirmed it. Apparently, reliable reproduction is possible now.

And this would mean:

Cheap and very clean nuclear power doable in tabletop-sized reactors at room temperature with no radioactive waste, using resources that are abundantly available.
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# 4
07-10-2012, 07:25 AM
They weren't just called liars, their errors were revealed. They made some very suspect assumptions and didn't calibrate their equipment correctly, which the handful of labs that did reproduce their effect found accounted for so much of the observed heat that the actual production was in line with chemical reactions and inefficient electrolysis, not nuclear reactions. Actual low energy fusion researchers left it behind some years ago and have a new process, but even they haven't found a way to consistently reproduce it.

But... I'm troubled by the constant statement that the process doesn't produce radioactive waste, though. It gets repeated a lot, yet the whole point of the process is that it produces gaseous tritium and tritiated water - both radioactive. In the amounts it would take to power a city, absolutely immense amounts of tritiated water would be produced (remember this may take common materials, but it's not a high energy reaction), and it's not just the radiation, but the fact that in freshwater in northern climates, it can freeze, sink, and if it's deep enough won't melt in the summer.

At least the emergency treatment for ingesting the stuff is pretty fun. Treatment consists of large, repeated doses of diuretic. In cases were a hospital can't be reached immediately, a couple hours of alternating between hard liquor and water is a viable home remedy.

Last edited by hevach; 07-10-2012 at 07:33 AM.
Career Officer
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# 5
07-10-2012, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevach View Post
They weren't just called liars, their errors were revealed.
Apparently some people have come to the conclusion that there is something to it now.

Quote:
I'm troubled by the constant statement that the process doesn't produce radioactive waste, though. It gets repeated a lot, yet the whole point of the process is that it produces gaseous tritium and tritiated water - both radioactive. [...]
That's the theory. In practice, they claim that this does not happen. Nobody knows why - but then again, in conventional theory, all this could not happen anyway.

So... if all this was true, it would not only mean that our energy problems are solved forever, but also that our nuclear physics needed to be reworked, possibly from the ground up...
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Survivor of Romulus
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# 6
07-10-2012, 07:33 AM
Magic, got it. */Fry*
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=91851766000&type=sigpic&dateline=13403  39147
Career Officer
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# 7
07-10-2012, 07:39 AM
Well, if it is magic, then it is magic that has convinced quite a few nuclear physicists... or so I would conclude from the link in the first post.
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Commander
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# 8
07-10-2012, 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Cheap and very clean nuclear power doable in tabletop-sized reactors at room temperature with no radioactive waste, using resources that are abundantly available.
Now I finally have the last component for the TARDIS I'm working on in the basement.
Career Officer
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# 9
07-10-2012, 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackswaggert View Post
Now I finally have the last component for the TARDIS I'm working on in the basement.
Is Val Kilmer trying to steal it?
Starfleet Veteran
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# 10
07-10-2012, 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Apparently some people have come to the conclusion that there is something to it now.



That's the theory. In practice, they claim that this does not happen. Nobody knows why - but then again, in conventional theory, all this could not happen anyway.

So... if all this was true, it would not only mean that our energy problems are solved forever, but also that our nuclear physics needed to be reworked, possibly from the ground up...
They don't claim it doesn't produce tritium - they do claim it produces a much higher ratio of He-4 (the cleanest and highest energy product of conventional fusion). F&P detected neutron radiation during the reaction and tritium after, and used tritium as the smoking gun that a nuclear reaction occurred. They acknowledged the production of tritium and tritiated water, they just claimed that it wasn't radioactive. After confirming its presence by its radioactive emissions.

It's kind of like saying you've developed a way to burn coal with zero carbon emissions, and proving it actually burned by its carbon emissions, and it's one of the reasons why there aren't many reputable scientists on board with it.

Last edited by hevach; 07-10-2012 at 08:41 AM.
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