Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,046
# 11
07-12-2012, 12:23 PM
..........

Last edited by oldkirkfan; 09-20-2012 at 02:22 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 168
# 12
07-12-2012, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldkirkfan View Post
Thank you for the correction thibash.... I had believed you only got 2 fighters.... I might have to reevaluate the Armitage as a play toy, too..... I also fly an Atrox and was put off by the 2 out.
You're welcome. I can understand the confusion, because of the number of hangar bays. But each hangar actually houses 2 'wings' of fighters, meaning you get 4-6 fighters per hangar at max. That would be up to 12 fighters for the Atrox, which I can tell you from experience is substantial.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
# 13
07-12-2012, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caelenbengal View Post
I've been trying to decide which ship I want between the Armitage and the Odyssey, but I'm finding I don't have enough information to choose. There isn't enough in the c-store data to pick. Would anyone be willing to share some advice on how to choose between them?

Currently, I planned out how I want to set up my bridge officers for either ship, and was able to do it with just 6 bridge officers. Bridge officers won't be the issue, they've already got all the skills I want them to have, and I can use exactly the right ones for each ship. Three tactical, two engineer, and one science, with one engineer not being used in the Armitage and one tactical not being used in the Odyssey.

Console layout is something I'll figure out when I get there, as I'm not too worried about it. I play a tactical officer, so I tend to focus on my weapons with consoles. This makes the Odyssey Tactical Cruiser the best choice of the three, and the three Odyssey-only consoles (which are thankfully clear in the c-store and work in all three Odyssey pack variants and any console slot) can take up engineering or science slots. I may even get the Armitage for its console to shove into the Odyssey, which is another option.

One thing I really don't understand, though, is how the "extra" ships work. The Armitage is a carrier, and comes with peregrine fighters, but I don't know what that means. Are they good support to have? How do they compare to the Odyssey's Chevron, Aquarius, and Work Bees? Any Odyssey I use would have all three of those unique consoles, after all.

Another thing to consider is weapon layout. I've been trying escorts and cruisers both (I have a tactical captain and an engineering captain, the tactical captain is my main and the engineering captain is for experimenting with other ships/powers/skills/etc), and I find both of them to be very nice ship types. The Armitage, being an escort, has a lot of forward firepower, which I really enjoy, but the Odyssey, being a cruiser, is tough as nails, and I like being able to not worry too much about hearing "forward shield failing". The mobility of the escorts is very handy with the forward weapons, but I find that sometimes I still don't have enough turning speed to get a good angle. I use combat impulse engines to try and help with that.

One last big thing is the Odyssey's Chevron separation. When it does this, what happens to the stardrive section that I control? Does it behave more like an escort in that situation? Would it allow me to get all the speed of an escort in combat while having the durability of a cruiser? I'd really like to get more information about the separation.

The last thing to look at is small, and that's the Armitage's point defense torpedo console. The console itself can be put onto any ship, but I'm wondering which ship could get the most out of it. With cannons taking up forward slots, the Armitage might not have enough torpedo launchers to really get the bang out of that console, while the Odyssey's larger number of weapon slots would help in that regard. It's a point for the Odyssey, to be sure, if I'm thinking along the right lines.

So, there's all the points I can think of to compare the two. I suppose the last question would be about how the purchase works. I haven't bought any ships off the c-store yet because of this. When I buy a ship, does it simply unlock and then have to be bought with something else to use? Does it just give me one copy of the ship bound to one character? Does it give me a copy of the ship for one character and unlock it for the rest? Or, does it give me one copy of the ship for every character?
this is a tough one my friend. i got the oddy 3 pack back when i was in my cruiser phase. now i am liking escorts and i got the armitage. i love both. i am a tac officer. i would say get both, but if you are on a budget or just frugal; i would go with the armitage. that is one bad ass ship.
http://startrek.44thfleet.com/
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 14
07-12-2012, 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caelenbengal View Post
I've been trying to decide which ship I want between the Armitage and the Odyssey, but I'm finding I don't have enough information to choose. There isn't enough in the c-store data to pick. Would anyone be willing to share some advice on how to choose between them?

Currently, I planned out how I want to set up my bridge officers for either ship, and was able to do it with just 6 bridge officers. Bridge officers won't be the issue, they've already got all the skills I want them to have, and I can use exactly the right ones for each ship. Three tactical, two engineer, and one science, with one engineer not being used in the Armitage and one tactical not being used in the Odyssey.

Console layout is something I'll figure out when I get there, as I'm not too worried about it. I play a tactical officer, so I tend to focus on my weapons with consoles. This makes the Odyssey Tactical Cruiser the best choice of the three, and the three Odyssey-only consoles (which are thankfully clear in the c-store and work in all three Odyssey pack variants and any console slot) can take up engineering or science slots. I may even get the Armitage for its console to shove into the Odyssey, which is another option.

One thing I really don't understand, though, is how the "extra" ships work. The Armitage is a carrier, and comes with peregrine fighters, but I don't know what that means. Are they good support to have? How do they compare to the Odyssey's Chevron, Aquarius, and Work Bees? Any Odyssey I use would have all three of those unique consoles, after all.

Another thing to consider is weapon layout. I've been trying escorts and cruisers both (I have a tactical captain and an engineering captain, the tactical captain is my main and the engineering captain is for experimenting with other ships/powers/skills/etc), and I find both of them to be very nice ship types. The Armitage, being an escort, has a lot of forward firepower, which I really enjoy, but the Odyssey, being a cruiser, is tough as nails, and I like being able to not worry too much about hearing "forward shield failing". The mobility of the escorts is very handy with the forward weapons, but I find that sometimes I still don't have enough turning speed to get a good angle. I use combat impulse engines to try and help with that.

One last big thing is the Odyssey's Chevron separation. When it does this, what happens to the stardrive section that I control? Does it behave more like an escort in that situation? Would it allow me to get all the speed of an escort in combat while having the durability of a cruiser? I'd really like to get more information about the separation.

The last thing to look at is small, and that's the Armitage's point defense torpedo console. The console itself can be put onto any ship, but I'm wondering which ship could get the most out of it. With cannons taking up forward slots, the Armitage might not have enough torpedo launchers to really get the bang out of that console, while the Odyssey's larger number of weapon slots would help in that regard. It's a point for the Odyssey, to be sure, if I'm thinking along the right lines.

So, there's all the points I can think of to compare the two. I suppose the last question would be about how the purchase works. I haven't bought any ships off the c-store yet because of this. When I buy a ship, does it simply unlock and then have to be bought with something else to use? Does it just give me one copy of the ship bound to one character? Does it give me a copy of the ship for one character and unlock it for the rest? Or, does it give me one copy of the ship for every character?

Do you want to do 1) DPS/Spike damage or do you want to 2) Tank/Support Heal/Support DPS?

Armitage = 1
Odyssey = 2
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,050
# 15
07-13-2012, 12:19 AM
There are a few ways to look at this. I will also provide Odyssey information in detail as that's the one I own. I have never played a carrier so I'll do my best there, but no promises.

PETS - if it's all about pets, get the Armitage. The Ody's pets suck by comparison, as they can't be ordered very effectively (generally they just attack your target, no matter how stupid of an idea it is or how much you want them to do something else). Carriers as I understand it have three or four explicit orders they can give to their fighters, which make them of considerably more use, and they can include 'protect/assist target,' which is great all by itself.

CRUSIER VS. ESCORT - This is probably the big question here; the carrier aspect of the Armitage is gravy on top of that. Contrary to the belief of some, a cruiser can be made into a very effective battleship, although it will not have the speed or spike DPS of an escort, and there isn't much you can do to get around it (and most of those are band-aids on the problem at best). If you have a definite preference of one over the other, go with that. But be aware, if you're used to the more nimble Assault Cruiser or Excelsior Retrofit, the Odyssey is a freaking SLUG. One thing that I've noticed is that a lot of people seem to blame the turn rate for this - however, there is a subtle difference in INERTIA, which gives, say, the Galaxy a lot more "traction" than the Ody, and so far as I know nothing will modify the inertia. (But, read on!)

VERSATILITY - With three possible hulls, the console set, and the universal BOff slots the Ody basically eats the Armitage for breakfast (and has leftovers for lunch) if the only criteria is versatility. You can make the Ody an effective ship of almost any career choice with all of this stuff. However, the versatility will be best seen if you have all three ships - otherwise you have to choose one hull and you're stuck with it, and you don't get the set bonus.

ODY BONUSES - Because I have the Ody, I'll give a quick rundown of the bonuses it comes with:

* AUX CRAFT - How the auxilliary craft work are essentially you push a button to make them launch. They attack your target and do their own thing until they are defeated (in which case they float in space and burn) or you recall them (in which case they redock and you have a cooldown before they can launch again). Once defeated (which you are not automatically notified of), you can press the button and once the cooldown elapses you can launch them again. Only one can be active at once.

* SAUCER SEPARATION - I can't really endure calling this thing "chevron separation" for some reason so I'll just call it saucer sep. The first thing you need to realize about the saucer separation that 90% of people don't is that it NOT about leveraging the saucer, it is more about GETTING RID of the saucer. Remember season 1 TNG? "Relieved of her bulk, she is a formidable weapon." Same principle. With it your ship transforms into what amounts to a faster, more versatile Assault Cruiser or Excelsior-R at the push of a button with a self-destructive little buddy to stalk it. With the right BOff layout with the universal stations it is probably closer to the Fleet Assault Cruiser (before it mysteriously disappeared from Tribble) than anything else. Note that the inertia you'll be dealing with is different when only using the stardrive, so it will overall handle better than the ship would in combined mode.

The saucer is occasionally of help, but usually it either flies around doing negligible DPS, NOT using the abilities it should (tractor beam, engineering team, WHERE ARE YOU), and getting blown up doing stupid things. I would note, in certain situations (most notably STF Infected) it can become a liability, as it sometimes goes a little crazy and starts shooting at whatever it wants, and if it decides that the Nanite Transformer is a tempting target you may blow the optional. This is however the exception and not the rule. Note that the cooldown time for this is painful (although the full set drops this down, it's still 4 minutes) and it automatically deactivates if you're beaten, so every time you go down, if you're in sep mode, you're going to have to wait another 4-5 minutes to get back into sep mode.

* AQUARIUS ESCORT - Some people think this thing is really great. For me, I have dubbed it the Barge of the Dead and have populated it with the DOffs who have displeased me. In short, it usually does negligible DPS and dies. Fast. However, sometimes it can surprise you. And there are people who swear by it - I don't know WHAT they're doing, but they like it a lot better than the other bonuses, so your milage may vary.

* WORK BEES - Basically Nanite Health Monitor in space. Can only be used on one target at a time. Can keep your pet alive a little longer, or act as an emergency backup hull heal for yourslf or an ally. Things to note include that AoE attacks (maybe plasma fires?) can destroy them, and I think they only get in on fixing a target after it's dropped below 75%, which means it's only partially useful for defending the Kang. These are NOT pets and do NOT operate like the Aquarius or saucer, they're like an ordinary buff almost.

* THREE PIECE ODY SET - Slight turn rate increase, slight increase to some stats (electro-plasma, hull armor, reinforcement) and drop in cooldown for Ody set abilities. Handy, for sure, but not the be-all end-all.

* SENSOR ANALYSIS - Science hull only. Some argue that this is more useful than a third tactical console (and is therefore superior to the tac Ody for DPS). I honestly don't know though I may experiment soon. Though it is worth noting that for this to work your target lock MUST LINGER until the fight is over, which means no helping anyone out and no changing targets, otherwise you will probably lose the SA buff (definitely if the target switch is more than a few seconds).

Personally I favor the saucer sep TREMENDOUSLY - frankly I wouldn't have bought the Ody without it. I do not particularly favor the Ops Ody, though - seems like a waste of power in the engine bonus (only .1 deg/sec boost from the +5 to engines, if I recall correctly), and the 5th engineering slot, once crammed full of armor, gets to be pretty redundant (and while I disagree with the old mantra that RCS consoles do nothing on cruisers, with the Ody I've given up trying to use them, it just doesn't work), so you may find the extra console slots somewhat useless, and there is definitely a reduction in firepower.

Ultimately, however, I think that what you need to base the decision on is which you enjoy more - cruisers or escorts. The extras do not change the fundamental nature of the ship (although I'd argue the saucer separation comes close, so you may want to factor that in if the Ops Ody or the three-pack may be in your future). If you have a burning desire to fight with pets, though, the carrier is your best bet, and that may overrule the cruiser vs. escort aspect, although you should know that when you do that you're also buying the cruiser/escort nature along with it. But if you get the Ody make sure you get the version you want, unless you get the three pack, because there are no take-backs and once you buy one the bundle discount is gone.

Last edited by red01999; 07-13-2012 at 06:54 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 402
# 16
07-13-2012, 01:30 AM
I think You are missing the most important difference between the two ships: even if you choose the tactical one the odyssey is still a cruiser (a support ship: better resistance, less dps and turn rate) while the armitage is always an escort (an attack ship: high dps, high turn rate, less resistance)...
I think you can't compare the two ships because their roles are different.

I do not use the odyssey (I use the Armitage), but if you'll buy the armitage you have to build (and use) it like an escort. However the pet are very usefull, expecially the danoube runabout and give you an advantage that other escorts haven't.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 76
# 17
07-13-2012, 03:53 PM
I just want to confirm and clarify a few things.

"Universal console" only means that it can be deployed in any console slot type. That is, saying it is universal only means that it can take up a Science, Tactical, or Engineering console slot. Whether or not it can be equipped in a different ship type is not related to it being "universal." Thus, the Armitage's Point Defense System console is universal, so it can take up any Armitage console slot, but it is restricted to the Armitage. The Tac, Sci, and Operations Odyssey consoles are universal, so they can be equipped in any console slot on the ship. The fact that any of the three consoles can be equipped on any one of the three variations of this Odyssey is an entirely different property. They cannot be deployed on any other ship, even the standard Odyssey. Being "unversal" only affects the type of slot, not the type of ship, it can be equipped in. Other properties determine the latter.

Each Odyssey variation (Tac, Sci, or Ops) comes only with its own special console. Equipping all three consoles gives additonal "set" bonuses as well as granting each console capability. That means that, if you want to equip all three consoles in one of these Odysseys, you have to own all three ships. Each ship costs 2500 Zen ($25). That would cost you 7500 Zen ($75) to buy all three ships. Thus, it is better to buy the bundle, which gives you all three ships for the price of two (i.e., 5000 Zen, or $50). If you buy all 5000 Zen for it at once, you also get a bonus of 300 Zen (5300 Zen for $50). The bundle is the way to go if you are going to get more than one Odyssey variant. (Note: Since 2500 Zen = 2000 C-Points, the actual price as not changed with the conversion to Zen).

For Hangers, each hanger currently available for the Federation deploys two wings of ships. True fighters (Stalkers and Peregrines) deploy in wings of three. Shuttles (type 8, type 10, or Danubes), Delta Flyers, and Shield Repair Units deploy in wings of two. So an Armitage can deploy two to four Shuttles, Delta Flyers, or Shield Repair Units, or three to six fighters. The hangers go on a short cooldown when a wing is deployed. The cooldown of the fighter hangers is shorter than the cooldown of the other types. For ships that can equip more than one hanger (i.e., the Atrox), each hanger has a separate cooldown. By the way, swapping out hanger despawns any ships deployed by that hanger, so only the Atox (or a Klingon Carrier) with two hangers can deploy multiple fighters, shuttles, or other ship types at the same time.

One caveat to the above is that the Stalkers are restricted to Carriers. All the other Fed Hangers are able to be equipped on Carriers or Escort Carrers. The Armitage is an Escort Carrier, so the Stalkers cannot be equipped on the Armitage.

Also note that Delta Flyers used to deploy in wings of two on the Atrox but wings of three on the Armitage. While testing Season Six on Tribble, I noted that they started deploying in wings of two even on the Armitage. I have not flown my Armitage since the start of Season Six on Holodeck, but I assume this will be the same there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 168
# 18
07-14-2012, 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotaudi View Post
Also note that Delta Flyers used to deploy in wings of two on the Atrox but wings of three on the Armitage. While testing Season Six on Tribble, I noted that they started deploying in wings of two even on the Armitage. I have not flown my Armitage since the start of Season Six on Holodeck, but I assume this will be the same there.
They now come in pairs again. The 3-delta's per call was a bug.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9
# 19
07-14-2012, 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
What about the science odyssey ? It might not look so at first glance, but the sensor analysis buff has greater effect than single tactical console.
The Science is better at survivalbility, but I say go with the Tactical Odyssey definitely. The Escort is useful, and the ship itself has extra power re-routed to weapons, and some to shields and auxillary. It is extremely powerful (Much beter than the carrier) and very resiliant.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
# 20
07-14-2012, 05:50 PM
Thanks again everyone for the help! I will be going with the odyssey pack. All three consoles or bust ^^

The big decision factor was my captain rank ship. I decided to give the big Exploration Cruiser a try (love the Galaxy class anyway). Combined with the Point Defense from the Thunderchild and the Antimatter Spread from the Venture, it's a beast. I enjoy it much more than I did the Thunderchild, so cruiser will be what I go for. The Odyssey's separation console just makes it even better.
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