Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,542
# 1 Starbases, my thoughts
07-16-2012, 01:23 AM
I've just been seeing a lot of mostly negative things about them these past few days. I am getting a little sick of it to be perfectly honest. I do have my gripes, and understand them, but I feel like so many on this forum seem to be taking only the bad sides of things. I just want to make a thread focusing somewhat on the positives, and my own thoughts about some of the things I've seen posted a lot.

So, I doubt I'll make people happy, but oh well. Here goes.

1. Fleet ships are too expensive/too good (compared to normal ships or C-store ships).

True, and while I don't like the fact that you need those modules, honestly, at least you CAN buy them in the exchange. Plus, regardless of cost and how it must be paid, people ARE going to want them for their own reasons.

Besides, at least they aren't like whole NEW ships, tier-6 Admiral/General stuff. Just enhanced versions of most ships of what we know already. Not all ships are fleet ships, like the Excelsior. I did feel disappointed when I saw that, because I love my old Excelsior, it was my favorite ship watching the movies as a kid, so to fly around in it was a dream come true. In short, not everyone is getting a ship they want upgraded anyways.



2. Fleets need to have a way of limiting the amount people can put in.

This one I really have to disagree with. I for one am VERY glad there is no such thing right now. I don't mind one tiny bit if a person can fill up a project almost by themselves. These things have only been out a few days folks, I say let people mega-dump their stuff, they get their fleet credits, and in turn, everyone else can hold off somewhat until things get harder.

I know there are fears of 'one person making a starbase on their own', which is an understandable thing to think. But these have been out only a few days so far, I've not heard tale of anybody above a tier 0 base yet. So relax a bit, once we start getting tier 2 bases in a few weeks (just my guess), then we can REALLY look at if people donating a lot early-on was a bad thing.


3. People have to to join a fleet/only larger fleets will get larger starbases.

This one I probably understand the most really. I do totally get where that would be coming from too. In fact, I think it's absolutely true, at least about larger fleets. But I don't think anybody is being forced to join any fleet, regardless of size. Honestly, if a person joins, they are wanting to join out of a choice because they want something over the long run.

That said, smaller fleets are not destined to die out, far from it I think. I'd really take pride if I was in a small fleet and we had gotten to a good point in a starbase. It would be the sweat, blood, and tears (figuratively of course) of a smaller group, who had earned it. I'm not saying it won't be easy of course.



4. Fleet ships aren't the only thing out there.

This isn't one I've noticed here on the forums, but really what I think people might be missing out on somewhat. Namely the items you can buy and will be able to buy from starbases.

The boosts and assets from the quartermaster for example are REALLY nice. The boosts add points to a set of skills, engineer, sci, or tac. From just +1 to +10 later on. It's not just like buffing your Particle Generators, and Shield Emitters, it boosts ALL skills, both ground and space.

So a tactical using a plus 10 one of those would do greater damage no matter what, hitting more criticals, doing stronger crits as well, being more accurate, and so on.

A science would be having greater damage from all their abilities, enhanced heals, buffs, and debuffs.

An engineer, the power levels on their ship would go up even more because of greater power going to every last system, combined with an EPS power transfer could sit with 100+ power to all systems (presuming it's at balanced levels of course).

So the usefulness of those might not be soon, but it is apparent, and good for anything.

Aside from that, there's heaps of stuff besides that, like having extra transwarp locations, or the fleet equipment.



For now, I will leave it at that, because it is very late, and I need to sleep. If there is interest in this thread, good or bad, I will post more, including some greater potential I believe these have.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 66
# 2
07-16-2012, 01:45 AM
you make very valid points. im part of a small fleet and we've done reasonably well in leveling up our starbase thus far as everyone works together and we're getting there slowly but surely and having fun doin it.

my only real gripe if you can call it that is that with the exchange being broken for many ppl some of the leveling assignments take alot longer to fill up than they would if the exchange was fully fuctional (lets face it the exchange is an ingame must for the majority of players and it should be a priority to be fixed).

combined also i feel that the majority of fleets out there would benefit more if the tier assignment completion time was reduced from 20hrs to say 10hrs especially since you cannot run more than 3 assignments and a special at any given time)

or as a counter suggestion maybe increase the special assignments reward from 5points per teir to a higher amount.

in my opinion it will allow more incentive for fleet members in different timezones to contribute more and balance out the contribution concern folks have ben having and also allows a more balanced and rewarding tier leveling output for smaller fleets who really grind for the contributions they put in.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 114
# 3
07-16-2012, 07:54 AM
some of this stuff i find a little annoying.

... but what really annoys me about S6 is my damn camera changes to "free camera" every 60 seconds... this is completely and utterly game breaking.
>>> UniqueOne - Providing you with easy PVP kills since Feb 2012 <<<
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,542
# 4
07-16-2012, 10:17 PM
Ok, to keep things going...

Yeah, my fleet is more or less decently sized, and we're guessing we can hit tier 1 before the week's end. I will say, that as a bit off-topic, the exchange does need to get fixed, that's really very significant.

Well, special assignments are meant to be a fleet-credit grinder (more or less) for larger fleets, along with providing a small exp bonus so that something is gotten out of it. i will say that it would be nice if yes, they gave more. But that 5/5/5 does add up.

Here's a breakdown for them:

5 exp in all areas per mission, each mission takes 30 minutes to do. Presuming of course a fleet does two missions an hour for all 24 hours of the day, you could do 48 missions in a day, which comes out to 240 exp for each area. Times that by 7 days in a week, which is 336 missions and 1,680 exp for each area. Then times that by say...4 weeks in a month which makes 1,344 missions or a total of 6,720 exp for all three areas.

Now of course, that's kind of a 'glorified' way of seeing it, presuming a perfect on-the-ball fleet of people who always have resources to donate. Still, even one fourth of that over the course of a month would still be quite useful for a large fleet, who would have to otherwise be going at the same pace as anybody else.

That basically means it's good to be in a larger fleet, BUT a smaller fleet wouldn't be that far behind over the long run still.

I can see where you are coming from, it would be nice to alter the exp gained from the small missions, but as you see above, even a small amount of exp can add up. Even if the special projects were only doubled in the amount given, all the numbers I mentioned above would also double, which would be a significant gain over time. Remember, any changes that would be made, would be affecting everyone, not just 'small' fleets or 'large' fleets.


A REALLY good, simple way of looking at starbases, is treat it like the Tortoise and the Hare. The Hare is larger fleets, who have the resources to dump easily, getting things going quickly and effectively. The Tortoise is smaller/medium fleets, who may still have plenty to give, but fewer people to give it.

So the Hare will jump ahead quickly, probably getting a lot of goodies earlier, but will have to wait for one of two things: Resources or time, maybe both. In turn, the Tortoise will go at a steady, consistent pace, grinding away his time, but still getting there regardless and even though they will hit the same roadblocks, they will still continue on at more or less their same pace.


But even I freely admit, I have no idea what things will be like when like tier 2 and 3 starbases hit, and the climb gets really hard, especially towards tier 5.

Anywho, onto some other stuff...


5. Think long term, and bigger in scope.

I believe a lot of people are wanting instant gratification, and when they aren't getting it with these, so they are griping about how much is having to go to get so little. They see all this stuff vanishing, and are irked at seeing nothing back.

I think once some of the tier-1 starbase ships start hitting the game within the next week or so, some folks might relax a bit.

I believe that hearing that multi-month long deal shook some people up. But it IS a starbase, just look at ESD, it ain't exactly small. If Starfleet can fit 3,000 people inside of an Atrox Carrier, there must be a small city's worth of people (or more) inside of a huge starbase like that. So honestly, all those little 5's and 10's worth of white DOFFs here and there really would add up and actually 'fill' a starbase.

Maybe I am somewhat cynical about this particular thing, but I tend to be very patient in everything I do, so waiting a few months to see the 'super-shiny' things is a-ok to me. My point is if I seem to be misunderstanding people, I apologize for that ahead of time.



6. Keep starbases advantageous, but not over-powered.

This is pretty simple. I want there to be things that are unique, different, useful, and so on, but not to the point that EVERYTHING good will come from starbases. On the other end of the spectrum, if we start seeing all these new things that make starbases looking obsolete, then they would be updated to stay on-par.

What I mean is the big example here: Fleet ships

They add more shield strength, more hull, sometimes like a universal BOFF, and an extra console slot, and that's about it. Are they better than their normal counterparts? Yes. Are they suddenly these godly ships that will destroy any non-fleet ship? Not really, it's more dependant on the players in them, not the ships themselves.

In turn, the various new assets and boost items are very nice in my opinion, they provide an advantage, without going over the top. Useful, but not necessary. I don't know about various fleet equipment yet, because I have not seen those thus far.



7. Personal suggestions

I have said more or less all I wanted to say, so here's my own suggestions, hopes, dreams, etc for Starbases.

A. General items and equipment. Pretty standard, I'd just like to be able to buy normal, every-day items at a starbase, be it paying normal ECs, or FCs. I would especially like to buy Critical Components and Regenerators at a starbase.

This also includes basic ships, like a normal shuttle, or maybe buying a Miranda-class. I wouldn't buy a Miranda, but there's probably somebody who would. So it wouldn't hurt the game at all to just have a normal one to buy.

B. More vanity things.

Rather straightforward, I liked being able to open the windows, so having more things like that would be quite fun. They don't provide any advantage, just look nice. For all of these, I don't want them to cost only dilithium. I think GPL would be a good thing to have as a requirement, it's slow to get, but would be a good drain since GPL is meant to be a 'fun currency', then let us use it as such.

I have several ideas:

i. Extra stuff inside. Be it holographic pictures on the walls, banners hanging from the ceiling, more people doing things like on a ship, a giant emblem of the faction on the Ops floor, those kinds of things.

ii. Patrol ships. Now this could be done in a few different ways. You could either 'buy' a ship to fly around outside, and that'd be that. Or you could upgrade a ship, like from an Excelsior, to a Galaxy, to a Sovereign. Or you could just buy multiple ships in general. Regardless, it'd make things more interesting outside.

iii. Private office(s), but not private quarters

I don't mind the idea of private offices/conference room, like what Admiral Quinn (Medicine Woman) has. but I don't want private quarters, since people might whine and moan about not having enough rooms for fleet members to 'claim', or there being so many rooms that a smaller fleet would have all this useless space. In short, not that necessary, but a private spot for fleet leaders would be nice so they can discuss without fuss things they need to talk on.


C. Unique ships

This is more of a hope, than any real suggestion, and one I know might catch some flak. I think that for starters, any unique ship shouldn't be a shuttle to begin with, and go on what I mentioned above, about not being too powerful but still useful. I think this could fill in the gap for what people have asked for on these forums sometimes, such as the gigantic Jupiter-class Dreadnought, the Ambassador-class cruiser (either normal or as a retrofit), and so on.


Anyways, this novel of a post is done, that's all I got for now.
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