Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,135
# 21
07-22-2012, 03:25 PM
Whats the big deal if they fire faster or not? If they fire fast and constant their dps will be recuded. So you would gain nothing just for pretty little bolts firing faster.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 92
# 22
07-22-2012, 07:14 PM
I have to disagree with the original poster, turrets are just fine as is.

I use all turrets on my main character's ships. Combine them with the rapid fire skill, and they are quite effective.

The bonus of a turret (and the reason it has a slower fire rate and lower damage) is that it fires into all firing arcs. With 6 turrets equipped, that allows 6 weapons to fire into every firing arc. If those same slots were replaced with beams, only 3 weapons could fire into 2 of the firing arcs, and 6 in only 2 arcs.

If you make a list of all the DPS figures for each weapon you have, and listed what arcs they fire into, you'd see that equipping all turrets INCREASES your overall DPS effectiveness (despite their lower damage). That's because more of them can fire at any enemy.

That's not to say that they are overpowered, they are not. I have other ship builds that use all beams, some that use cannons, etc.

They are perfectly balanced as is.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,429
# 23
07-22-2012, 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
I don't know what you are talking about? My cooldown is not 30 secs. It all depends on the DOFF set up, but we are not talking about doffs. The subject is about turret rate of fire, by default.
You don't know what I'm talking about? But I quoted you saying that CRF1 only has a 5 second uptime and I pointed out it infact has a 10s uptime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
What i'm saying is that the rate of fire in this game doesn't make sense. Think about real life turrets, or turrets in the Star Trek universe. In real life, the one turret on a US Naval Ship is Phalanx CIW, a 20mm gun which fire 4,500 rounds/minute. then there is the Mk-46 GWS, a remotely operated naval gun system that uses a 30mm high velocity cannon. It fires 200 rounds/minute. The main gun on most modern warships, is the Mk 45 Naval artillery gun that fires 20 rounds/minute. As you can see, the more powerful the weapon, the slower the rate of fire.

If you want to use the sci-fi universe, you can look at any show, Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, etc.,and will see the heavier weapons fire ate a slower rate of fire than smaller weapons. The arc of the weapon is irrelevant to a weapon rate of fire. That why, I say the way this game has the weapons set, doesn't make any sense. For example: the rate of fire for the Defiant and Klingon Birds of Prey in this game fire alot faster than the Defiant and Birds of Prey in the shows and movies. The Devs always use the excuse that they have to follow Star Trek lore when a player wants to make this game more like other MMO's. What happened with the weapons in this game, why aren't they following "Star Trek lore?"
Real world machine guns are not a good analogue to Star Trek Online weapons. I mean you compared machine guns to laser turrets? What is the firing rate of a Naval Laser cannon? What are you asking for, the ability to lower the caliber of the Turret so that it fires faster. Maybe if you get it down to 1 dps per shot it will look like a beam.

This is precisely the point I made which you mistook for an insult. You want the game changed to suit your vision of how it should be. Rather than accepting the game for what it is, and adjusting your vision.

I don't want 3 turrets on the back of my Intrepid, I'd like them to be 3 beams which can shoot forward, but that won't happen so I use turrets. I think somebody else said the exact same thing.

This game has to disregard 100% show accuracy to make the game fun and balanced. Do you think Starfleet would allow officers to put on any uniform the captain liked? No of course not but in the game it's a customisation option.

There are more promotions in a week of STO than in all the episodes or movies of Star Trek combined. And I'm talking about just my ship. I remember seeing one and only one promotion in the entire series of TNG, and that was Worf making Lt.Com. I prefer to ignore the JJ Abrams Movie but that brings our total to 3.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 411
# 24
07-22-2012, 09:59 PM
game balance trumps everything else, as it should
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 185
# 25
07-22-2012, 10:27 PM
Personally I only just learned the benefit of turrets after having gotten to 50 on my first char. Started experimenting with builds and have to say I was pleasantly surprised with the idea of 2 turrets, 2 beams (fore and aft for all slots) and 2 torp launchers.

Think I might just have to spend a weekend in Memory Alpha and make some nice shiny new turrets.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 26
07-22-2012, 10:50 PM
The only thing that bothers me is that there are no beam turrets and I have to listen to that anoying cannon turret sound.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 27
07-23-2012, 03:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumperthumper View Post
@alexindcobra (the OP):

You posted a question on the forum, then attacked players that had completely useful responses. They make sense.

Turrets have a slower rate of fire and lower damage output per volly b/c of their 360 degree firing arc. This is due to game mechanics not allowing an 8x Turret Boat to completely dominate the field.

If you want the rate to be higher on turrets, then the damage output would need to be lowered, by your RL scenerio. Anybody would be able to get off more shots from shooting a small-caliber automatic rifle, rather than a bazooka.

I use 3x turrets aft and 1x DBB w/3x DHC fore on my escort. I don't seem to have much of a problem, and I'm not a god at this game. I'm also not attacking people w/any useful input on any thread when I'm asking for help or support from the players to get something noticed by the company(s).
Hold up, you have no Idea about the conversation between me and that other poster because there is an old rivalry from old Cryptic forums. You can disagree without calling people out and telling them that they just always wrong. That was message was for him.

Last edited by alexindcobra; 07-23-2012 at 03:58 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 28
07-23-2012, 04:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
You don't know what I'm talking about? But I quoted you saying that CRF1 only has a 5 second uptime and I pointed out it infact has a 10s uptime.



Real world machine guns are not a good analogue to Star Trek Online weapons. I mean you compared machine guns to laser turrets? What is the firing rate of a Naval Laser cannon? What are you asking for, the ability to lower the caliber of the Turret so that it fires faster. Maybe if you get it down to 1 dps per shot it will look like a beam.

This is precisely the point I made which you mistook for an insult. You want the game changed to suit your vision of how it should be. Rather than accepting the game for what it is, and adjusting your vision.

I don't want 3 turrets on the back of my Intrepid, I'd like them to be 3 beams which can shoot forward, but that won't happen so I use turrets. I think somebody else said the exact same thing.

This game has to disregard 100% show accuracy to make the game fun and balanced. Do you think Starfleet would allow officers to put on any uniform the captain liked? No of course not but in the game it's a customisation option.

There are more promotions in a week of STO than in all the episodes or movies of Star Trek combined. And I'm talking about just my ship. I remember seeing one and only one promotion in the entire series of TNG, and that was Worf making Lt.Com. I prefer to ignore the JJ Abrams Movie but that brings our total to 3.
Its no fun when you fly a ship that this game decides to cripple with rediculously slow turn rate. Turrest should be there to help ships who can't turn fast enough to keep aim on zipping escorts. The rate of fire is not realistic in real world or sci-fi world. Maybe you like they way things are in this game, but I don't and I want this game to stay true to Star Trek and not drift off into "Never Never Land." What you think is fun is somone else's misery. Intrepid is not crippled by slow turn rate as much as large cruisers and carriers, so you may not have the need for them as much.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 37
# 29
07-23-2012, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
I want this game to stay true to Star Trek
Seriously, did you just actually post this? lol
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,429
# 30
07-23-2012, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post

#1 Its no fun when you fly a ship that this game decides to cripple with rediculously slow turn rate.

#2 Turrest should be there to help ships who can't turn fast enough to keep aim on zipping escorts.

#3 The rate of fire is not realistic in real world or sci-fi world.

#4 Maybe you like they way things are in this game, but I don't and I want this game to stay true to Star Trek and not drift off into "Never Never Land." What you think is fun is somone else's misery.

#5 Intrepid is not crippled by slow turn rate as much as large cruisers and carriers, so you may not have the need for them as much.
#1 Pick a ship that turns faster. If you pick the slow turning majesty of the Galaxy Class than deal with it.

#2 Turrets are not there to help slow ships who can't turn fast enough. They are there to provide 360 degree Cannon Fire.

#3 Rate of Fire not Realistic? I don't know about you but my real life Phaser Turret doesn't exist. Turret does not imply a rate of fire, it implies a gun on a swivel mount, like a Tank Turret. Tanks are not known for their high rate of Fire. Battleships also had Turrets for there large guns again not known for their High rate of fire. High Speed firing does not go hand in hand with Turrets.

#4 The usual argument from you, the game is not fun because Turrets don't shoot fast enough or that Manual Shield Distribution is too slow. I have to question why if everything is wrong with this game that you continue to play it

#5 Some Science builds are based around a forward 90 arc (Torpedo, DBB, Lots of Sci abilities), putting anything other than turrets on the back of such a ship means they won't be shooting at your intended target or at all most of the time.

I run my Cruisers as either a 6 Beam boat for broadsiding or Cannons with an ability to increase their turn rate Dramatically. I think you may be better off going to Cannons and Turrets and using Aux to Dampeners to compensate for the turn rate... Oh wait Compensate that's something the game should do to suit you, not what you should do to suit the game.

In nearly two years of this game I have never seen anyone complain about the rate of turret fire. Than again I've never seen anyone seriously consider the DPS of a single turret as vital. Oh yeah I run 3 Turrets on the back of my Escort (and one of my Cruisers) and those babies are worth about 6k DPS, but we all know the meat of my Damage is the 3 DHCs in the front.

I have tried 6 Turrets on a Carrier, I found switching to Beams and getting Aux to Dampeners a bigger increase to my DPS than chaining CRF.

Just for the record I don't see any rivalry with you at all, I just never agree with a thing you say like 99% of the people who respond to your posts.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.

Last edited by dknight0001; 07-23-2012 at 10:13 AM. Reason: typos
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