Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,645
# 101
09-17-2012, 08:16 PM
I visited my tng bridge once.

All the officers had clipping issues, one was even more down inside the floor than sitting in her chair

Then I looked at the still photo that was supposed to be the view screen

Meh, never looked back

In for a penny in for a pound, either do it right or don't do it at all
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,419
# 102
09-17-2012, 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorbane View Post
I'm wondering if a curved wall will cause issues with their "Doors Anywhere" tech
I think in one of the NW Foundry videos, it was mentioned that some rooms only could connect in specific places. I think a bigger issue would be bridges which tend not to have doors at right angles.

@greendragoon
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,100
# 103
09-17-2012, 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
Kirkfat, That was what I was referring to. Yes, we could make huge single, curved hallway pieces with a door at either end. They would essentially qualify as a special type of room probably. I don't know if that would be at all compatible with the room/hallway layout tool we're talking about. I haven't had much of a chance to play with that yet.

Yes, you can take pieces that are meant to meet each other at 90 degrees, and kludge them together to make a rough curve, but that's really tedious and inefficient. We (devs) can't really get away with that on any large scale, as it will cause pretty horrendous performance issues, and make it very difficult to do some other things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
If you position it with the bulkhead facing a room it's attached to, you get bulkhead or an error message. If you position it with the curved hallway, you get an opening into a curved hallway. Nothing could branch off from that curved hallway or at least not most of it. But you could place reasonable L-curves and have the hallways straighten out before leading off to doors.
While this would be a brilliant (and welcome) addition to the foundry, this is not the solution to the ship interior problem. Not everyone has an architectural engineering degree nor wants one. One thing you have to accept is that if you allow people to customise something, 90% of the time it's going to look really silly.

Since I don't really want that with ship interiors, here's how I would do it,

Treat it like you would on the show. I.e. only build the important stuff:

Bridge
Ready Room
Engineering
Engineering Lab
Medi Bay
Medi Lab
Armoury
Lounge
Holodeck
Captains Quarters
Senior Officer Quarters
Meeting Room
Shuttlebay
And at least one Storage area

Anything else can really be skipped over (Deal with it RPers). Sure there would be hallways and such connecting all the rooms, a lot of these things would share the same deck, but you really don't need much more than this.

It is however quite a bit... so I would suggest making it thus in order to justify it: Make it you're own personal mini-starbase. Have little Dilithium counters that you can drop stuff into just like starbases, that will unlock for you.

Upgrading your Engineering Lab could give you the ability to craft up to a certain Mk on your ship or heal injuries on your ship.

Upgrading your Medibay could let you heal injuries on you and your boffs.

Getting the armoury would give you a special bank you could only store weapons in. (Now that the game has both Borg and Fleet weapons I would LOVE this)

You could always add Projects that allow for extra doff contacts with special missions unavailable by any other means.

This should be account bound. In fact, all of your characters would donate to the same pool. So once you get the Armoury, All ships on all characters get that upgrade, however, you would still have to buy ship interiors. 100,000 Dilithium for each full upgrade sounds like a fair cost. There would be the default of course, but then you would only have to worry about the main ships that we saw in the series. The Galaxy, Intrepid, Excalibur, would all need interiors and the Defiant would simply need to be expanded. The other ships would have to deal with it for a while (Yes Klingon ships would need several interiors, I'm not forgetting about them).

This should not be a sink though, this should be something to net the players who are not, or do not want to be part of a fleet, and still give them a bit of Starbase functionality. It would also add something else for players who are bored with Starbases, RPers, or just simply want something else. If you added the ability to customise your doff contacts (bartender, chef, counsellor, etc) and the ability to set the default shipboard uniform, I would absolutely be all over this.

(P.S. @leviathan99 I've played your mission, and have been looking at your siggy for over a week, and just now I realized what the title of that mission is referencing... you clever bastard you )
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 71
# 104
09-18-2012, 01:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Using the Foundry they can, but outside of STO it would require legal work in making contracts and agreements. Then the work has to be done with particular tools within certain limits (like polygon counts).

And using interiors used in Bridge Commander and Elite Force, Cryptic would have to pay Activision a lot of money to use them. And like with fan mods, they have to convert those old files to be used in STO. So basically its cheaper and faster to do it themselves.
I didnt mean they should convert interiors from older games. I meant that fans have proven when mapping for those games that they have the skills and will to make cannon interiors if only allowed access to the proper tools. Using the same tools as the devs use to make the interiors we have seen in STO (defiant interior) they could create many of the ship interiors many players are willing to pay for.

There would be no legal fees or charges for this surely as it doesnt involve activision or any other company but CBS approval? And as I mentioned before, a dilitium reward or points to spend in-store would be a low price for cryptic to pay, considering the revenue they could earn from selling the interiors to players.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 105
09-18-2012, 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
As for adding more assets to the foundry in general, is there a list of specific things that would be useful for you guys somewhere? We tend to just add whatever we've been working on that makes any kind of sense to add. I don't know of any time coming up to do a pass, but if we had a specific list of assets, it would be slightly more likely to get traction.
Here's a "short" list of additional Foundry assets that would be nice to have:

- More floor options other than building "boxes" side by side
- More walls (all races)
- More doors (all races)
- More consoles (all races)

Would love to see some of the existing "Interior maps" be made available WITHOUT having all the assets visible. Say for instance, if a person wanted to make a "Mirror Universe" Earth Spacedock, one would assume it wouldn't have everything in exactly the same place.

One thing I liked about the old "Supergroup Base" builder in City of Heroes, was you allowed players to choose a specific style for floors, walls and ceilings. Any chance of something similar coming down the pipeline at some point?

Also, i'd like to add my +1 to adding curved rooms (i.e hallways) to the future "room-by-room" feature for STO. Possibly even have different styles of hallways (compare for example Galaxy TNG hallways to Trek 2009 hallways).
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 106
09-18-2012, 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oooooon View Post
I didnt mean they should convert interiors from older games. I meant that fans have proven when mapping for those games that they have the skills and will to make cannon interiors if only allowed access to the proper tools. Using the same tools as the devs use to make the interiors we have seen in STO (defiant interior) they could create many of the ship interiors many players are willing to pay for.

There would be no legal fees or charges for this surely as it doesnt involve activision or any other company but CBS approval? And as I mentioned before, a dilitium reward or points to spend in-store would be a low price for cryptic to pay, considering the revenue they could earn from selling the interiors to players.
Afraid things are much more complicated. Cryptic can't legally accept free work, and if they did, without a contract, they potentially could open themselves to massive lawsuits. That's why they don't accept things like Player Made designs, or why it took a very long time for Cryptic to go through the legal process of getting the Vesta in game.

And being paid with Dilithium or Zen, I believe there are laws that state people have to be paid in real currency for their work or services.


It's a nice idea, but Cryptic just can't take the easy road for this. Only way we could see it if one of the team works on their free time to make accurate interiors. Or the work was subcontracted.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,659
# 107
09-18-2012, 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
Any chance one of them can be stickied, so that when one of you guys want a list or want to look at a master list, there it is, and all of our previous lists don't eventually get buried?
Open a "forums and website" ticket using the link in my sig, and in that ticket link the thread you feel should be stickied, with a brief explanation as to why.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online Forums. My views do not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment.
If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a 'forums and website' support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 71
# 108
09-18-2012, 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Afraid things are much more complicated. Cryptic can't legally accept free work, and if they did, without a contract, they potentially could open themselves to massive lawsuits. That's why they don't accept things like Player Made designs, or why it took a very long time for Cryptic to go through the legal process of getting the Vesta in game.

And being paid with Dilithium or Zen, I believe there are laws that state people have to be paid in real currency for their work or services.


It's a nice idea, but Cryptic just can't take the easy road for this. Only way we could see it if one of the team works on their free time to make accurate interiors. Or the work was subcontracted.
Soooo.. The reason why they can accept players making missions which are then available for players to play for free is because they don't pay players for making them? They've still made is possible for players to receive a "tip" from other players though which is a form of reward.

Maybe this could be a work around. The fans who made the interiors for previous Star Trek games made them without any payment. It was to make the game a better experience and get feedback for what they were creating, much like players are receiving feedback for what they make in the foundry in STO.

I can't speak for everyone else but I would like to be given the chance to create something on my free time for cryptic to use in game. Even if they give away player made interiors for free, it will still benefit them as it will increase customer satisfaction with the game in general, with players getting access to a long requested feature. The creator could receive dilithium tips, the same way they do now for foundry missions.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,036
# 109
09-18-2012, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Let me see if I can explain without an illustration.

What I mean is: Cryptic could have a "room" that is a curved hallway, like an L-shape but more curved. It connects to other rooms or hallways at two points.

If it helps, imagine a room that is a square block of bulkhead with an L-shaped hallway carved through it.

If you position it with the bulkhead facing a room it's attached to, you get bulkhead or an error message. If you position it with the curved hallway, you get an opening into a curved hallway. Nothing could branch off from that curved hallway or at least not most of it. But you could place reasonable L-curves and have the hallways straighten out before leading off to doors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
Yes, we could make huge single, curved hallway pieces with a door at either end. They would essentially qualify as a special type of room probably. I don't know if that would be at all compatible with the room/hallway layout tool we're talking about.

??? ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by zorbane View Post
I'm wondering if a curved wall will cause issues with their "Doors Anywhere" tech
A curved hallway as mentioned above, would have door hook ups at either end, which would be on the grid. You would not be able to hook up anything in the middle of the hallway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreendragoon1 View Post
I think in one of the NW Foundry videos, it was mentioned that some rooms only could connect in specific places. I think a bigger issue would be bridges which tend not to have doors at right angles.
Correct, though the bridge, and it's connecting pieces (ready room, conference room) would likely have to be one single unit. You wouldn't be hooking up hallways and other rooms off the back of the bridge. Those would be for other decks.
-The Artist formerly known as Tumerboy



Quote:
Originally Posted by mightybobcnc View Post
Tacofangs, what is your beef with where's Sulu?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,051
# 110
09-18-2012, 08:20 AM
Heres an idea (though given that everything in STO is SICK-IMMENSELY-HUGE, might difficult):

Make lots of small wall segments, and doors...

Small... Tiny compared to the current ones.

And then simply let people place loads of them, but at slight angles.

SOLVED... Really... it's not harder, and unnecessary to make it harder, than that.
My name may say "PWE member", but I will never be.
-NEVER Forget the Screwups and ignorance made towards the people who supported the game through 2011
Don't look silly, don't call it "Zen-Store" - Don't waste devs time, Post proper bug-reports - I don't like Gekos

Last edited by anazonda; 09-18-2012 at 08:25 AM.
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