Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,450
# 151
09-29-2012, 05:14 PM
This is all nice but it doesn't really treat ship interiors as a content hub or consider mechanical approaches.

I think there need to be minimum customization areas, at least one well-designed deck that is the same on every ship, aside from colors, lighting, and LCARS. I'd be inclined to make this a deck with a brig, a lab, a holodeck, and a shuttlebay. Structurally like a TNG deck, more than likely.

I can also think of compelling reasons why bridges shouldn't be very custom but that boils down to tech for a feature I'm angling for.

Otherwise, I'm fine with roleplay and basic functions on the existing Crew and Engineering decks with custom NPC placements... and I think they should have freeform decks sold as slots where we can dress and costume every NPC in the Foundry if we like.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 890
# 152
09-29-2012, 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
That doesn't mean it cannot be a nice bonus. Having little quarters for say your First Officer and Chief Engineer would be rather amusing for RP reasons, and you could justify it by having it connected to bank space or Doff Contacts or something.
A bonus, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmanpappy View Post
Does anyone know if you can upgrade a bridge station to take advantage of your officer's rank?
Off topic. Please don't hijack threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
This is all nice but it doesn't really treat ship interiors as a content hub or consider mechanical approaches.
My current proposal simply extends ship interiors as possible core mission maps, player customised such that each player's experience is unique. To make interiors a content hub would require a fundamental rethink of STO.

Not sure what you mean by "mechanical approaches".

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
I think there need to be minimum customization areas, at least one well-designed deck that is the same on every ship, aside from colors, lighting, and LCARS. I'd be inclined to make this a deck with a brig, a lab, a holodeck, and a shuttlebay. Structurally like a TNG deck, more than likely.
Don't like the sound of that, I'm afraid - generic layouts for all ship classes is the current implementation.

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots

Last edited by sumghai; 09-29-2012 at 09:17 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,450
# 153
09-29-2012, 05:42 PM
[quote=sumghai;5892871]A bonus, yes.



Off topic. Please don't hijack threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
This is all nice but it doesn't really treat ship interiors as a content hub or consider mechanical approaches.[/QUOTE[

My current proposal simply extends ship interiors as possible core mission maps, player customised such that each player's experience is unique. To make interiors a content hub would require a fundamental rethink of STO.

Not sure what you mean by "mechanical approaches".



Don't like the sound of that, I'm afraid - generic layouts for all ship classes is the current implementation.

I think being able to have missions set there is more important than having a dollhouse. I want the dollhouse too but I can't shoot people in the face in dev crafted missions on a dollhouse.

Ships need to be split out into a single, default style for one deck (with colors/LCARS/lighting) and then put the dollhouse on other decks.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,092
# 154
09-30-2012, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
I think being able to have missions set there is more important than having a dollhouse. I want the dollhouse too but I can't shoot people in the face in dev crafted missions on a dollhouse.

Ships need to be split out into a single, default style for one deck (with colors/LCARS/lighting) and then put the dollhouse on other decks.
No. While a default deck is a given necessity, having all ships use the same deck for interior missions is bland and rather lazy. Does this mean I believe that the Devs should handcraft each interior mission for every ship interior?

Yes, I think so. It would set STO way apart from other MMO's, and make it a lot more faithful to it's IP. Both things this game really could use.

It's not like it would be all that hard. They would only truly have to worry about the Galaxy, Intrepid, Sovy, TOS/TMP Enterprise and whatever the default is. That's only 5 ships. All the rest would be set redresses in true Star Trek fashion.

The Galaxy and Nebula are made out of the same parts, I would assume they would have the same interiors. The Destiny would probably share a lot of parts with the Intrepid. So on and so forth. And like sumghai said, interior customisation would be limited to colour/texture/carpet changes, Trophies and Decorations like paintings, wall scrolls, clocks and furniture styles (But not placement). It would all be very simplified.

EDIT: Someday however, I would love to see a full Miranda interior. There's a part of me that wants to get a buddy, sail to some suitably red nebula and re-enact the Wrath of Khan!
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.

Last edited by centersolace; 09-30-2012 at 10:34 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,519
# 155
09-30-2012, 10:48 AM
> Ship travel while interior

Get it done !

Since you already have a still photo option being the view screen, you simply add a bunch of them depending on where you are.
Like a still photo of ds9 or w/e.

You'd then hit m for map, click something. Still photo turns into an animation with moving stars.
Once at your destination the classic HUD pops up "enter whatever" and viewscreen changes to still photo of said place.

This way you aren't actually looking out into space but can still travel while on your bridge.


In the future people spend more time on the bridge than anywhere else
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,659
# 156
09-30-2012, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vestereng View Post
> Ship travel while interior

Get it done !

Since you already have a still photo option being the view screen, you simply add a bunch of them depending on where you are.
Like a still photo of ds9 or w/e.

You'd then hit m for map, click something. Still photo turns into an animation with moving stars.
Once at your destination the classic HUD pops up "enter whatever" and viewscreen changes to still photo of said place.

This way you aren't actually looking out into space but can still travel while on your bridge.


In the future people spend more time on the bridge than anywhere else
And thus most of the game's major social areas become ghost towns. Might as well just replace your ship interior with a loading screen and let everybody transwarp from planet to planet.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,519
# 157
09-30-2012, 11:31 AM
I don't know what you mean exactly, what social areas ?

In my example you'd physically move around in space - on other people's screen, like you normally do, only you won't see the actual travel yourself through your viewscreen as it's "hard to do". Only your map would show you moving just like it does now.

And my last comment about "in the future everyone is on the bridge... is intended as hardcore sarcasm since we all know there won't be any changes to the bridge: laughable naive to think major overhauls are going to change things dramatically, get it ?
Hence the innocent, happy yet also contemplating smiley I left at the buttom

That being said having any kind of use for the interiors would have been first on my list in creating a star trek game seeing as most of the shows take place there.

I played star trek on snes which is from what 1998, see my avatar, and that game had travel and fighting from the bridge - in full 3d, barrell rolls and everything.
A more recent example would be bridge commander which I am sure you know...

My idea for interior travel is I think more realistic not asking to redo the engine simply script a few lines of text....

But hey realism knocking on the door it won't sell any lockboxes I can dig it
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 890
# 158
09-30-2012, 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
No. While a default deck is a given necessity, having all ships use the same deck for interior missions is bland and rather lazy. Does this mean I believe that the Devs should handcraft each interior mission for every ship interior?

Yes, I think so. It would set STO way apart from other MMO's, and make it a lot more faithful to it's IP. Both things this game really could use.
It might not have to come to that - rather, the conference room / observation lounge area currently underutilised in my proposal could contain coordinates for NPC placeholders.
The following examples assume sumghai is using his Intrepid-class interior.

Default
sumghai's Intrepid conference room on the port side of the bridge has been customised with the canon Voyager wall textures, a slightly different meeting table and 2409 LCARS.

His default spawn location is the captain's chair of his bridge.

"Standoff" diplomacy mission
After the dialog prompt for beaming the two Cardassian Guls in dispute, the game builds the customised gameplay scenario as follows:

1) Loads sumghai's ship interior with his customisation choices.

2) List all the NPCs involved and prepare their appearances:
- two Starfleet Security guards, using the player's custom Tac department crewmen costumes (otherwise used for hallway wandering NPCs)
- Gul Antos
- Gul Surjan
- Gul Surjan's two guards
- Player's First Officer (in sumghai's case, Cmdr. Thomas Richardson)

3) Lookup NPC positioning coordinates for the player's specific major ship class
- sumghai is using an Intrepid
- Make Antos stand looking out the window
- Have Surjan sit in one of the meeting table chairs with his two guards standing at attention behind him
- Have the two Starfleet Security officers stand by the doorway
- Have Cmdr. Richardson to the side of the conference room LCARS computer

4) Locate any interaction "objects" required
- sumghai will be using the LCARS computer to look up info on Antos' case and examine the evidence, so make the computer panel on the far wall interactable.

5) Locate player spawn point
- In "Standoff", sumghai start off already standing inside the conference room with the door behind him

6) Finish loading map and start mission

"First Contact" diplomacy mission
After the dialog prompt for beaming the alien (in this case, Gallifreyan) dignitaries aboard:

1) Loads sumghai's ship interior with his customisation choices.

2) List all NPCs involved and prepare their appearances:
- one Starfleet Security officer (again using the player's custom crew uniform choices)
- Alien Ambassador
- Alien Attache
- Alien Diplomat
- Alien Envoy
- Player's First Officer (again, Cmdr. Thomas Richardson)
- 3 other random BOffs (Lt. Cmdrs. Christine Barber, Vrin K'vov, Corat Remara)

3) Lookup NPC positioning coordinates for the player's specific major ship class
- sumghai is still using an Intrepid
- Have the Ambassdor seated in one of the meeting table chairs
- Have the Attache stand by the window talking to Barber
- Have the Diplomat stand by the wall computer talking to K'vov
- Have the Envoy stand by the far wall talking to Remara
- Have the Starfleet Security officer stand by the doorway
- Have Cmdr. Richardson to the side of the conference room LCARS computer

4) Locate any interaction "objects" required
- none

5) Locate player spawn point
- In "First Contact", sumghai start off already standing inside the conference room with the door behind him

6) Finish loading map and start mission

For another player:
ben_sisko is using the Defiant interior.

Default
The Defiant is a tactical escort, so it lacks the creature comforts of other ship classes. Since it has no conference room, the mess hall is used instead (TV canon gives examples of the real Capt. Sisko having powwows in the Defiant mess hall).

ben_sisko is using 100% canonical Belfast decor.

ben_sisko's default spawn location is the captain's chair of his bridge.

"Standoff" diplomacy mission
After the dialog prompt for beaming the two Cardassian Guls in dispute, the game builds the customised gameplay scenario as follows:

1) Loads ben_sisko's ship interior with his customisation choices.

2) List all the NPCs involved and prepare their appearances:
- two Starfleet Security guards, using the player's custom Tac department crewmen costumes (otherwise used for hallway wandering NPCs)
- Gul Antos
- Gul Surjan
- Gul Surjan's two guards
- Player's First Officer (in ben_sisko's case, Kira Nerys)

3) Lookup NPC positioning coordinates for the player's specific major ship class
- ben_sisko is using a Defiant
- Make Antos stand looking at the Defiant's spent phaser power cell display
- Have Surjan sit in one of the mess hall chairs with his two guards standing at attention behind him
- Have each of the two Starfleet Security officers stand by the two doorways
- Have Kira to the side of the mess hall LCARS computer

4) Locate any interaction "objects" required
- ben_sisko will be using the LCARS computer to look up info on Antos' case and examine the evidence, so make the computer panel on the wall interactable.

5) Locate player spawn point
- In "Standoff", ben_sisko start off already standing inside the mess hall with the door behind him

6) Finish loading map and start mission

In short, each mission that makes use of player customised interiors simply consults NPC positioning coordinates for that specific class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
It's not like it would be all that hard. They would only truly have to worry about the Galaxy, Intrepid, Sovy, TOS/TMP Enterprise and whatever the default is. That's only 5 ships. All the rest would be set redresses in true Star Trek fashion.

The Galaxy and Nebula are made out of the same parts, I would assume they would have the same interiors. The Destiny would probably share a lot of parts with the Intrepid. So on and so forth. And like sumghai said, interior customisation would be limited to colour/texture/carpet changes, Trophies and Decorations like paintings, wall scrolls, clocks and furniture styles (But not placement). It would all be very simplified.
Agreed.

In Appendix A of my proposal, I've listed the deck / room layouts that are canonically known. As STO has unique non-TV classes, it's up to the devs how to implement those ones, including whether to reuse layouts from canon classes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
EDIT: Someday however, I would love to see a full Miranda interior. There's a part of me that wants to get a buddy, sail to some suitably red nebula and re-enact the Wrath of Khan!
I haz a digital copy of the Strategic Designs Miranda deck plans. U want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vestereng View Post
Ship travel while interior
That has been covered in many other threads.

Unfortunately, the way STO works is that when one switches between space and ground, your character's skin literally becomes switch between your ship and your captain. In doing so, only the last known map (and not the precise position) is retained.

There's currently no way of keeping track of your ship's exact position in sector space whilst you're running around inside your ship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
And thus most of the game's major social areas become ghost towns. Might as well just replace your ship interior with a loading screen and let everybody transwarp from planet to planet.
Note that my proposal by no means negates hubs like ESD, Risa, First City or anything - the hubs are still going to be where one can access the bank and the exchange.

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,450
# 159
09-30-2012, 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
No. While a default deck is a given necessity, having all ships use the same deck for interior missions is bland and rather lazy. Does this mean I believe that the Devs should handcraft each interior mission for every ship interior?

Yes, I think so. It would set STO way apart from other MMO's, and make it a lot more faithful to it's IP. Both things this game really could use.

It's not like it would be all that hard. They would only truly have to worry about the Galaxy, Intrepid, Sovy, TOS/TMP Enterprise and whatever the default is. That's only 5 ships. All the rest would be set redresses in true Star Trek fashion.

The Galaxy and Nebula are made out of the same parts, I would assume they would have the same interiors. The Destiny would probably share a lot of parts with the Intrepid. So on and so forth. And like sumghai said, interior customisation would be limited to colour/texture/carpet changes, Trophies and Decorations like paintings, wall scrolls, clocks and furniture styles (But not placement). It would all be very simplified.

EDIT: Someday however, I would love to see a full Miranda interior. There's a part of me that wants to get a buddy, sail to some suitably red nebula and re-enact the Wrath of Khan!
I could go for that but even then, it wouldn't be a truly custom deck.

Truly custom deck design would mean you get the Foundry editor and you can put whatever you want on the deck. That might work for vendor placements or certain kinds of consoles if they have functionality baked into the asset but devs can't handcraft a mission for a map with no default layout.

Let's say your Deck 12 is a circle and mine's a square and some joker has ESD's map for his Deck 12.

I think there needs to be one generic deck. It should be better looking than the existing ship interiors in game and should have custom LCARS, lights, colors, and wall textures that can make it look okay for any ship.

You could make it 5 generic decks as you're suggesting... But you couldn't have unlimited interior customization on that one deck.

I'm all for sickbay, main engineering, all the iconic locations being customizable.

But there needs to be one (or five or a limited number of) default hallways where missions can be places or the ship interior will always just be housing... and less compelling housing than Fleet Starbases or DS9.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 890
# 160
09-30-2012, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Truly custom deck design would mean you get the Foundry editor and you can put whatever you want on the deck. That might work for vendor placements or certain kinds of consoles if they have functionality baked into the asset but devs can't handcraft a mission for a map with no default layout.
Devs can assume the starter no-frills Miranda interior as the default, but instead of hard coding a special mission-specific instance with the NPCs inside, they simply put placement coordinates just like on all other canon interiors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
I think there needs to be one generic deck.

-snip-

But there needs to be one (or five or a limited number of) default hallways where missions can be places or the ship interior will always just be housing... and less compelling housing than Fleet Starbases or DS9.
The take-home message is essentially

- The entire player-customisable ship interior is where missions could potentially take place

- Nothing is hard-coded into the interiors - everything can be swapped out on the fly for any mission / game mode.

- The proposal is much, much more than housing - there will be mini-games as well as full episode missions based entirely inside ships.

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
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