Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 221
10-13-2012, 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumghai View Post
One herbal-tea powered morning later...a cut-down Intrepid-class interior as I originally proposed:

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...ai-d5hpuh2.png

I based the room/deck locations from Sternbach & Okuda's Voyager Tech Manual (never published) and the actual layout from the fanon Strategic Designs / Cydonia 6 Voyager deck plans - I simply got rid of the hundreds of crew quarters, M/AM storage tanks and utilities, as well as trimming down most of the corridors and adding dummy doors to seal off unexplorable regions.

This is intended as a proof-of-concept for potential canon ship interior maps. I'll try sticking this in my proposal doc as well...
Well that's good and all, but remember Voyager was almost fully modeled in Elite Force, and most of the Enterprise-E in Elite Force 2. Those on the Cryptic team that has that game can easily use them as reference. Especially since those maps were far superior than what Cryptic currently has.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 893
# 222
10-13-2012, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
remember Voyager was almost fully modeled in Elite Force, and most of the Enterprise-E in Elite Force 2. Those on the Cryptic team that has that game can easily use them as reference. Especially since those maps were far superior than what Cryptic currently has.
Indeed. I'd imagine CBS would provide the original blueprints, too.

The sole purpose of my doodle was to show how to optimize map size whilst keeping room / deck locations canonical. I'm assuming Cryptic can fill in the details anyway.

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,021
# 223
10-13-2012, 07:41 PM
I'm not saying you can't use the Foundry to make your own ship interiors if you want to, Go for it! I'm just saying that it's not likely that we'd require people to do so, or hook that up as the main ship interior.
I also think that if we (Cryptic) were going to be spending time on this, I (personally) would prefer that we made proper layouts that weren't all built at right angles etc.

I think Sumghai's layouts are reasonable, if still a bit overambitious. I would start with a very few, very key, locations, and once we had the basics for each ship type, then we can talk about adding more. As long as the new stuff is on different decks, or can be reasonably separated from the others, it'd be reasonable to add them later.

While the Galaxy was a "civilian cruise ship" I really don't think we lose a ton if things like the barber shop, and a theatre weren't included. You, as the Captain are unlikely to visit all of those places anyway, and as I said above, I'd rather get the basics in everywhere first.

But. . . it's all hypothetical BS at this point anyway.
-The Artist formerly known as Tumerboy



Quote:
Originally Posted by mightybobcnc View Post
Tacofangs, what is your beef with where's Sulu?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 224
10-13-2012, 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumghai View Post
Indeed. I'd imagine CBS would provide the original blueprints, too.

The sole purpose of my doodle was to show how to optimize map size whilst keeping room / deck locations canonical. I'm assuming Cryptic can fill in the details anyway.
You know, I wonder if CBS would have real blueprints to their ships, outside of the set blueprints. Only official interior maps I've seen are the MSDs, and the most accurate of them was the NX's, which Doug Drexler did of the top-down, which shown all the decks with hallways and turbolifts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I'm not saying you can't use the Foundry to make your own ship interiors if you want to, Go for it! I'm just saying that it's not likely that we'd require people to do so, or hook that up as the main ship interior.
I also think that if we (Cryptic) were going to be spending time on this, I (personally) would prefer that we made proper layouts that weren't all built at right angles etc.

I think Sumghai's layouts are reasonable, if still a bit overambitious. I would start with a very few, very key, locations, and once we had the basics for each ship type, then we can talk about adding more. As long as the new stuff is on different decks, or can be reasonably separated from the others, it'd be reasonable to add them later.

While the Galaxy was a "civilian cruise ship" I really don't think we lose a ton if things like the barber shop, and a theatre weren't included. You, as the Captain are unlikely to visit all of those places anyway, and as I said above, I'd rather get the basics in everywhere first.

But. . . it's all hypothetical BS at this point anyway.
Well hypothetical with a highly fleshed interior, but you could easily do smaller ships as a starting point like you did with the Belfast. Larger ships like the Galaxy, well you might have to keep it to the essentials and have turbolift to those locations nearby. That way when time allows, you could add a little at a time.

Anyhow, I like you to check out my D7 Interior on my Foundry mission. Since it's not published yet, perhaps you can ask Zero to pull the file and take a look at it. It's the Battle of Klach D'Kel Brakt.

If you can't let me know, I'll make screenshots.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 893
# 225
10-13-2012, 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I think Sumghai's layouts are reasonable, if still a bit overambitious. I would start with a very few, very key, locations, and once we had the basics for each ship type, then we can talk about adding more. As long as the new stuff is on different decks, or can be reasonably separated from the others, it'd be reasonable to add them later.

While the Galaxy was a "civilian cruise ship" I really don't think we lose a ton if things like the barber shop, and a theatre weren't included. You, as the Captain are unlikely to visit all of those places anyway, and as I said above, I'd rather get the basics in everywhere first.

But. . . it's all hypothetical BS at this point anyway.
Agreed with all of the above - a phased release schedule would be best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
You know, I wonder if CBS would have real blueprints to their ships, outside of the set blueprints. Only official interior maps I've seen are the MSDs, and the most accurate of them was the NX's, which Doug Drexler did of the top-down, which shown all the decks with hallways and turbolifts.
I'm working mainly from fanon-ish deck plans, which in turn were based on canon listings for which decks particular rooms are on.

I do, however, have a digital copy of the Ed Whitefire deck plans for the Ent-D, from when he was asked by the TNG art department to draw up some official plans.

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,100
# 226
10-13-2012, 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I'm not saying you can't use the Foundry to make your own ship interiors if you want to, Go for it! I'm just saying that it's not likely that we'd require people to do so, or hook that up as the main ship interior.
I also think that if we (Cryptic) were going to be spending time on this, I (personally) would prefer that we made proper layouts that weren't all built at right angles etc.

I think Sumghai's layouts are reasonable, if still a bit overambitious. I would start with a very few, very key, locations, and once we had the basics for each ship type, then we can talk about adding more. As long as the new stuff is on different decks, or can be reasonably separated from the others, it'd be reasonable to add them later.

While the Galaxy was a "civilian cruise ship" I really don't think we lose a ton if things like the barber shop, and a theatre weren't included. You, as the Captain are unlikely to visit all of those places anyway, and as I said above, I'd rather get the basics in everywhere first.

But. . . it's all hypothetical BS at this point anyway.
I don't think it's overambitious in the slightest. After all, there's absolutely nothing stopping you from using those interiors in story missions. They visited other ships all the time in the series. Hell, you could even have a fairly simple 5 man Klingon mission entirely based on boarding a random Federation ship. (Actually, that would be badass, do it now!)

Ideally though, how I would introduce them is say, here you have your big main interior with all the important stuff purchasable for $10-$15 depending on the complexity of it, and then the other fluff interior rooms are attached to the C-Store ships.

For example, the main interior of the Galaxy Glass would have; Ten Forward, Engineering, Med Bay, all the Doff Contacts, etc. But if you bought the Galaxy-R it would give you the Barbershop, the theater, a Counselors Office (At which point she would be moved into it), Buying the Venture could give you an armory, buying a Galaxy-X could give you Lance Control. Hee hee hee...

It would give you guys an excuse to revisit some of the under performing C-Store ships (Like the Galaxy-R) as well as boost the sales of underselling C-Store items (Again, the Galaxy-R) as well as proving to the fans you aren't going to lockbox everything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sumghai View Post
I do, however, have a digital copy of the Ed Whitefire deck plans for the Ent-D, from when he was asked by the TNG art department to draw up some official plans.
Oo.... I would love to play around with those... (The Galaxy is my favorite after all)
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 514
# 227
10-13-2012, 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by averis76 View Post
I think the idea of using foundry tools to build our own ship interiors is a great idea.

Look how popular a lot of "building" type games are. Take the Sims for example. They have a cash store where you can buy all sorts of furniture etc. Think of the possibilities for the C-Store with this. Say we get a base set of building blocks, for example, a couple 2409 hallways, small, medium and large crew quarters, a med bay, holodeck, turbolift, ten forward etc etc. The turbolifts have a property box that allows you to pic a deck that you have already built or it can go to your bridge. Or maybe it just automatically lists all the decks your have made when you use it.

As for curved hallways. I can't imagine why, with a lot of coding, there can't be a way to make curved blocks of "hallway style X" with a series of "door connection points". Those "door connection points" tell the foundry where and at what angle you can connect a room.

So now I use, say, the "medical room style Y" and drag it near a "door connection point" on the curved hallway and it snaps into place at the right angle. Then I can add a couple unique furniture items that I bought in the C-Store and dress it up a bit from the base look.

For example, don't the NPCs know how to face us when they fight us? Isn't that sort of the same thing. They have a "front" that points to our character. I'm sure there is some math that can do this for connecting rooms to a curved hallway. If it's worth the development time is the question. But ship interiors are a big big part of the Star Trek shows and movies. So far, outside of the 2 C-Store interiors, what we have is pretty basic and not really as good as it could be.

At the very least it would be nice if this was something that could be added down the road, even if we have to start with a more block-based layout system. And if it's not doable, then I'd love to see more custom-built, high quality, interiors on the C-Store like we have already.
This, plus my idea for rooms and hallways to be broken up into "Lego" pieces so that players can assemble custom rooms and corridors would vastly improve the ability of Foundry authors to make missions, and even starship interior maps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I'm not saying you can't use the Foundry to make your own ship interiors if you want to, Go for it! I'm just saying that it's not likely that we'd require people to do so, or hook that up as the main ship interior.
I also think that if we (Cryptic) were going to be spending time on this, I (personally) would prefer that we made proper layouts that weren't all built at right angles etc.

I think Sumghai's layouts are reasonable, if still a bit overambitious. I would start with a very few, very key, locations, and once we had the basics for each ship type, then we can talk about adding more. As long as the new stuff is on different decks, or can be reasonably separated from the others, it'd be reasonable to add them later.

While the Galaxy was a "civilian cruise ship" I really don't think we lose a ton if things like the barber shop, and a theatre weren't included. You, as the Captain are unlikely to visit all of those places anyway, and as I said above, I'd rather get the basics in everywhere first.

But. . . it's all hypothetical BS at this point anyway.
Well, you (Cryptic) definitely can make rooms that are connected/oriented at angles other than ninety degrees, as evidenced by the KDF missions "Second Star to the Right, Straight On 'til Morning" and "Keep Your Enemies Closer". If Neverwinter's Foundry team could add the ability to make room connections at angles other than 90 degrees - like in the aforementioned missions here in Star Trek Online - it would mean that you (Cryptic) wouldn't have to spend as much time building custom, non-ninety-degree-only interior maps for starships should you ever port Neverwinter's room-building tech here to STO's Foundry.

It would also help if authors had the option to use a more complex version of the room-building system in Neverwinter's Foundry: using the components of rooms, which I know was how you guys made most (if not all) of the interior maps in STO and CO. Since I started playing both games, I noticed that each room in an interior map (including hallways) was made up of square blocks, at least when viewed from the top. There were different corner blocks, wall blocks, and open space blocks. I would love to be able to use those to create my own rooms and corridors should the room-building tech from Neverwinter's Foundry ever be ported here. Especially if I can stack rooms to make extra-high areas with platforms and walkways, like the puzzle room in Khitomer Accord (Ground).

Last edited by theoryfive; 10-13-2012 at 11:40 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 228
10-13-2012, 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumghai View Post
I'm working mainly from fanon-ish deck plans, which in turn were based on canon listings for which decks particular rooms are on.

I do, however, have a digital copy of the Ed Whitefire deck plans for the Ent-D, from when he was asked by the TNG art department to draw up some official plans.
I seen them, and they are much better than those made by FASA, which didn't show their understanding of Trek.

If I had access to accurate measurements, I could make deck plans per ship. Because I really want Cryptic to redo the KDF interiors to make it feel like a Klingon ship or feel like you're in a BoP.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 893
# 229
10-14-2012, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
If I had access to accurate measurements, I could make deck plans per ship. Because I really want Cryptic to redo the KDF interiors to make it feel like a Klingon ship or feel like you're in a BoP.
Whilst I might not have accurate measurements, I do have the deck plans for BoPs. I can email them to you if you wish.

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 230
10-14-2012, 02:37 PM
That's okay, I got them as well.

I'll have to make a BoP Interior inside the foundry as a demonstrator, because their interiors are too spacious and not something you see in a BoP.
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