Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 910
# 401
12-12-2012, 04:51 PM
Reading the differences of viewpoint regarding how the bridge view-screen does or doesn't function is interesting. Because that tech really was an evolution from flat screen to 3D to holographic projections.

The holographic projections started out small. With the tabletop display of the Tychon Empire in TNG season 1. A display type that impressed some viewers. But wouldn't appear again until DS9 with the single episode displaying a holographic Admiral near the Captains' chair of the Defiant. Now my recall may not be entirely representative, but that holographic Admiral inspired friends and online acquaintances to wince. As it was too Star Wars What Is Thy Bidding My Master. We never saw it again. Was it due to fan outcry for Star Trek to not borrow too much from Star Wars? I don't know. I hated it myself and wasn't sad to see it go. However, since the tech did appear at all it is canon from which to speculate with regard to 2409.

During Generations, when the saucer of the E-D crashed on Veridian III, we saw consoles slide forward (apparently not bolted to the floor? ) and through the view-screen. Into an almost empty space behind it. This was really the only moment that any 3D tech was directly implied.

With First Contact, we did see what appeared to me as a flat projection in front of a blank wall space for display of the Borg attack on Earth. I saw a gap between the blank wall and the projection above the floor. To me, it looked more like projected IMAX than anything else.

With Voyager's Year in Hell, that was most certainly a hole where a flat view-screen had been previously. With the shuttlebay door tech shielding the gap. Else Janeway would have been sucked into vacuum. Hard to say if there was the Generations-styled 3D chamber having been scrapped off the hull, too. If it existed it was gone.

Edited to add:

While I'm not a fan of the view-screen as window approach (see AbramsTrek), I can see how applying the concept to the game maps might accomplish the goals being suggested.
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Last edited by psiameese; 12-12-2012 at 05:09 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 894
# 402
12-12-2012, 04:54 PM
I may have mis-stated by original idea.

Essentially, just have the viewscreen and ship viewports like those windows in Earth Space Dock, loading the appropriate planets/nebulae/space stations for each major location.

No need to deal with holographics or HUDs - just as long it's not a flat wall painting.

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,876
# 403
12-12-2012, 05:11 PM
It was obviously never seen in the series, but I always thought the holographic viewscreen would result in an image that could look something like this.
Career Officer
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Posts: 1,502
# 404
12-12-2012, 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I concede.
TNG Tech manual says it does display in 3d as well.
hmmm...

i noticed something odd while currently re-watching TNG

when Picard talks to someone on the screen and the camera angle changes to a 90? side camera the viewscreen also shows the guy on the (blue-)screen from a side profile.

maybe proof of a 3D screen?

i try to get some screencaps if i see it again...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,028
# 405
12-12-2012, 06:21 PM
I'd like to see the addition of an astrometrics room with details on every planet - all the info that we see in the little window that pops up when get near a planet? Those, collected in a database. Cryptic could even monetize it (cough) by selling us the room, with our choice of visual (Generations style or Voyager... or 2409, etc)..

Also, with the addition of information the on various wildlife on New Romulus (which I had a similar, but larger, galaxy-wide idea to years ago which also spruced up Exploration clusters (all photobucket links are dead)), I'd like a database of that information on my ship.

So basically a wonderful room that I can go to aboard my ship, and just nerd out reading about the lore of the game's worlds and species, of all types flora and fauna.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 894
# 406
12-12-2012, 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brigadooom View Post
I'd like to see the addition of an astrometrics room with details on every planet - all the info that we see in the little window that pops up when get near a planet? Those, collected in a database. Cryptic could even monetize it (cough) by selling us the room, with our choice of visual (Generations style or Voyager... or 2409, etc)..

Also, with the addition of information the on various wildlife on New Romulus (which I had a similar, but larger, galaxy-wide idea to years ago which also spruced up Exploration clusters (all photobucket links are dead)), I'd like a database of that information on my ship.

So basically a wonderful room that I can go to aboard my ship, and just nerd out reading about the lore of the game's worlds and species, of all types flora and fauna.
I like this - I'll add to the proposal doc later this week.

Some ship classes would, however, not have this feature due to their size and purpose (e.g. the Defiant)

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,027
# 407
12-12-2012, 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumghai View Post
I may have mis-stated by original idea.

Essentially, just have the viewscreen and ship viewports like those windows in Earth Space Dock, loading the appropriate planets/nebulae/space stations for each major location.

No need to deal with holographics or HUDs - just as long it's not a flat wall painting.
I'm confused. You say to have the viewscreen act like the windows of ESD, but that there's no need for holographics? Are you saying the viewscreen is a window? Either way, the only "3D" option is to make it seem like a window. (see next quote response)



Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffel82 View Post
It was obviously never seen in the series, but I always thought the holographic viewscreen would result in an image that could look something like this.
I am ok with THIS type of holo-display. The actual display space is a 2D image. However, it recognizes your position and adjusts the image to match. This would look much less like a window than if, as it seems people are suggesting, there is a full holographic projection of 3d objects in 3d space behind the viewscreen.

The problem is, there is no way for me to represent this in game. I can do a 2d Texture (possibly animated) or I can make a window into 3d space. I don't think either of those accomplish what I feel is "correct" but I think that the 2d option is still "more" correct, and feels better overall.



Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobang View Post
hmmm...

i noticed something odd while currently re-watching TNG

when Picard talks to someone on the screen and the camera angle changes to a 90? side camera the viewscreen also shows the guy on the (blue-)screen from a side profile.

maybe proof of a 3D screen?

i try to get some screencaps if i see it again...
Personally, I think that they did this more so that it didn't feel awkward (like the person on screen is looking out at an odd angle, or not directly at Picard or whoever). But it can certainly be rationalized as a 3d Holographic display similar to what Jeffe posted above.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightybobcnc View Post
Tacofangs, what is your beef with where's Sulu?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 894
# 408
12-12-2012, 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I'm confused. You say to have the viewscreen act like the windows of ESD, but that there's no need for holographics? Are you saying the viewscreen is a window? Either way, the only "3D" option is to make it seem like a window. (see next quote response)
That's correct.

It may not be how it is in-canon, but having a viewscreen as a window would be best implementation-wise - you can then simply change the skybox depending on the last map.

Game features I'd like to see improved / expanded: Better Ship Interiors // BOff Costume Slots
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,788
# 409
12-13-2012, 12:11 AM
From an engineering standpoint, windows suck. Windows are a weakness to the integrity of the ship. Technology can fail so using force fields to protect the windows are not a permanent solution. The only solution is to have windows made of a substance as strong as the hull. Transparent aluminum helps or whatever is currently being used by the 25th Century, but it is still a weakness since their window material is not as strong as the hull material. Having sensors on the outside of the ship and send the image to a viewscreen makes more sense than having a window. It is possible to have windows that can be used as viewscreens when necessary, but having a window as a TV for your home is much different than having it in space.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 771
# 410
12-13-2012, 12:27 AM
While using a Window may not be completely accurate, I think it would be the best solution with the current tech.

It's always bothered me since the game first launched and I beamed to my bridge, that even from a distance, the viewscreen image doesn't look quite right, and walking up close to it, it looks like nothing more than a painted picture.

Possibly because the viewscreen isn't animated, but there isn't any sense of depth. I would expect the viewscreen to at least look like what I would see on a TV screen connected to a camera looking outside, but it isn't even that. Faking it by making it a window, even into a generic stars-and-space skybox would do wonders for making it look better, IMHO.
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