Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,774
# 411
12-13-2012, 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I am ok with THIS type of holo-display...The problem is, there is no way for me to represent this in game. I can do a 2d Texture (possibly animated) or I can make a window into 3d space. I don't think either of those accomplish what I feel is "correct" but I think that the 2d option is still "more" correct, and feels better overall
Yeah, I didn't really think it would be feasible, I was just trying to describe what I felt it would have looked like on the shows (but it wasn't feasible for them, either).

In terms of sheer practicality, I feel like the best choices for STO viewscreens are either (a) a 2D starfield texture (easy), or (b) displaying a 2D screenshot of the current system/last space map visited (less easy, but hopefully not out of the question).

Even option (b) would need to have a "blank" starfield option to represent sector space and any uniquely generated maps like star cluster systems, as I'm sure it would be ridiculous to get screenshots of every single one of them.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,981
# 412
12-13-2012, 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffel82 View Post
Yeah, I didn't really think it would be feasible, I was just trying to describe what I felt it would have looked like on the shows (but it wasn't feasible for them, either).

In terms of sheer practicality, I feel like the best choices for STO viewscreens are either (a) a 2D starfield texture (easy), or (b) displaying a 2D screenshot of the current system/last space map visited (less easy, but hopefully not out of the question).

Even option (b) would need to have a "blank" starfield option to represent sector space and any uniquely generated maps like star cluster systems, as I'm sure it would be ridiculous to get screenshots of every single one of them.
Agreed. Another issue doing a window into space poses, is that you'd be able to see your ship's hull from up there. 2D, while not ideal, is still the best solution to this imo.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightybobcnc View Post
Tacofangs, what is your beef with where's Sulu?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 764
# 413
12-13-2012, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I concede.
TNG Tech manual says it does display in 3d as well.
I still dispute it being a window into space though.


My bottom line is that it may not feel right being a 2d image. But I also don't believe it would feel right being a window into space. And those are the options. I can't make a 2d display that changes upon the angle of viewing. What we want is Portals, and we don't have that.
It's not a window into space- or at least not in the sense of it 'displays what's on the other side of the bulkhead'- I imagine it's actually showing from a camera on the tip of the saucer section- or that sort of thing, given that we dont' see the saucer stretching out in profile on the viewscreen.


Actually, Voyager dedicated an episode (a rather bad episode, actually) to this sort of thing, explaining that what the viewscreen shows is actually a degree of difference from what the visual appearance actually is. It's sensor data rendered into visuals- given the utility of sensors, I imagine for your standard fed ship it's showing a point forward and above the hull as the 'camera' position that it renders everything (in realtime) from.


That'd let you do your 'window to space' without showing the hull, if you treated it like that, and it's fairly sensible when one considers the amount of computational power trek ships have.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 30
# 414
12-13-2012, 08:13 AM
In the last Ask Cryptic, I thought one of the questions asked was a really good idea for progress on starship interiors:

Q: (temp3rus) Have you thought about a Captain/Crew reputation system played much like a mini Starbase for ship interiors?

Dstahl: This is an interesting idea and would open up an interesting connection between the Duty Officer system and your Captain?s career. Nice suggestion, and something we?ll consider as one of our future Reputations.


http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=769201

Having something that ties directly in with the commendation ranks earned using the DOFF system would be perfect.

I'd love a lot more customization possible with the interiors. I know Cryptic has said that bases in CoX and lairs in CO got lukewarm receptions, but Star Trek is probably a little different. Large amounts of the shows occurred right on the ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 116
# 415
12-13-2012, 09:16 AM
What I'd really like to see is a way for players to create custom interiors (with or without the Foundry) and sell them to other players for Zen.

Surely there would have to be profit potential in that kind of system, right? Perhaps enough potential to justify the cost of development?

At the very least, I do hope Cryptic and PWE are watching the performance of SOE's Player Studio project closely.

Last edited by stealthrider; 12-13-2012 at 09:22 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 114
# 416
12-13-2012, 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
Agreed. Another issue doing a window into space poses, is that you'd be able to see your ship's hull from up there. 2D, while not ideal, is still the best solution to this imo.
The temporal science vessel(s) has a window into space instead of a viewscreen, and you can see the hull and it's fine.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,895
# 417
12-13-2012, 10:00 AM
I suppose the most basic dynamic outside view would static starfield vs. "warp stars." The game could check the last map you were on before going to your ship's interior: if it was the ground or system space, you see static stars on the viewscreen and out the windows (windows in the lounge, ready room, etc.). If you've come from sector space, you get streaks.

And if you've come from a permanent social map like Earth or Qo'nos, you'd get a view of that particular planet.

And while tacofangs is contemplating improvements to ship interiors, the transition from a space map to the ship interior still beams us onto the bridge of our ship. And beams us off of it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,383
# 418
12-13-2012, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
Agreed. Another issue doing a window into space poses, is that you'd be able to see your ship's hull from up there. 2D, while not ideal, is still the best solution to this imo.
Um...........you did this with the Bortas, the Odyssey, and the Wells. And people love it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I concede.
TNG Tech manual says it does display in 3d as well.
I still dispute it being a window into space though.
The JJ Viewscreen is a window that can display images (which some say is the future), while the classic viewscreen is more like a computer monitor that act as a window (by displaying the other side of the hull).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
IMy bottom line is that it may not feel right being a 2d image. But I also don't believe it would feel right being a window into space. And those are the options. I can't make a 2d display that changes upon the angle of viewing. What we want is Portals, and we don't have that.
No, you can't make a 2D display change without somekind of animation. That's why I suggested some trickery by having a window and display modified objects (by size) and put them behind the window.


Right now, Foundry authors could off a Psudo 3D Viewscreen if they had access to ship models from ground and interior maps. Bet people might like it than having just a plain 2D picture on a wall.


I built one in my Klacht Dkel Brakt Foundry mission (which I'm still working on after a year) and pulled this off. If you can get access to it, look up the base, you be surprised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
I concur. I think it's impractical and unnecessary for them to be 3d, holographic images, but who knows. I've never had a screen like that so I can't really tell you the benefits and drawbacks.

I still think a 2D screen feels more correct to everything we've ever seen in any show/movie.

While for all intents and purposes a 2D screen fits the bill, but just imagine if there was a new Episodic Mission that has an functional viewscreen. What you think people would react more to, an unmoving 2D image or a moving one?

I seriously doubt a static, changing 2D image isn't going to fair well. Now if it moves, people might really be amazed, which means either some creativity (like my Psudo 3D Image) or you somehow pulling off showing video or cutscene on the viewscreen without an actual cutscene or a popup window.
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Last edited by azurianstar; 12-13-2012 at 11:03 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,774
# 419
12-13-2012, 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamerjosh View Post
The temporal science vessel(s) has a window into space instead of a viewscreen, and you can see the hull and it's fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Um...........you did this with the Bortas, the Odyssey, and the Wells. And people love it.
That's only practical when locking specific bridges to specific ships, so the game doesn't have to determine which combination of ship parts a player is using.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 30
# 420
12-13-2012, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthrider View Post
What I'd really like to see is a way for players to create custom interiors (with or without the Foundry) and sell them to other players for Zen.

Surely there would have to be profit potential in that kind of system, right? Perhaps enough potential to justify the cost of development?

At the very least, I do hope Cryptic and PWE are watching the performance of SOE's Player Studio project closely.
I like this idea as well.

No matter how they implement it, starship interiors need to be much more customizable.
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