Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,032
# 81
09-17-2012, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
For those spouting that the Foundry room layout tool is the answer, remember that the foundry's room layout tools only work on a grid. You could make a "starship" interior with it, but it would all be square rooms, with square hallways, all lined up at 90 degree increments from each other. My memory isn't so good anymore, but I seem to remember a fair number of curved corridors and oddly shaped rooms from my ST watching.
So basically the KDF ship interior (singular, the one interior used for all KDF ships, not counting bridges, which makes sense to have the same sized Main Engineering on a B'rel and a Vo'quv) was used with the foundry tool?
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 82
09-17-2012, 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
There is a lot of enthusiasm in this thread, and while I appreciate that, my original (hypothetical) proposal was meant as a guideline of something that is feasible. Building 42 fully flushed out decks for one ship, is not feasible.
It's feasible, just not practical.

After all we barely have any reason to go on our ships right now. And just be a waste to fully create a fully architectually-accurate interior with every floor available. Right now, the only real reason is if you made maps for boarding parties or Borg assimilation of the ship like in First Contact.

Come to think of it, that would be a pretty awesome idea to do. Stop the Borg from assimilating a starship and force them back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
For those spouting that the Foundry room layout tool is the answer, remember that the foundry's room layout tools only work on a grid. You could make a "starship" interior with it, but it would all be square rooms, with square hallways, all lined up at 90 degree increments from each other. My memory isn't so good anymore, but I seem to remember a fair number of curved corridors and oddly shaped rooms from my ST watching.
Exactly, this is a literal sense of "square peg in a round hole". The only parts of the ship that would have straight corridors would be in the Engineering Hull.

Maybe if you took player-made ship interiors from the Foundry and the art team uses that as a template to create the real interiors, thus saving time? Because ship interiors really need a good runthrough, like Klingon Interiors just doesn't feel like you're on a Klingon starship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oooooon View Post
Why aren't players given access to create interiors and submit them to Cryptic for use in game? Fans have made canon interiors for several other Star Trek games once the tools to make them became available. (EF1 & EF2, Bridge Commander)

Cryptic could offer rewards in terms of Dilitium or Free points to spend in the store. It would be cheaper in terms of manpower to have players make them instead of having them hire additional staff or spend a significant amount of time building these.

I dont understand why this business model isnt implemented, when so many players on the forum have been asking for better interiors since launch. It would speed up game development and create a greater satisfaction amongst players.

PWE restrictions?

Le sigh...
Using the Foundry they can, but outside of STO it would require legal work in making contracts and agreements. Then the work has to be done with particular tools within certain limits (like polygon counts).

And using interiors used in Bridge Commander and Elite Force, Cryptic would have to pay Activision a lot of money to use them. And like with fan mods, they have to convert those old files to be used in STO. So basically its cheaper and faster to do it themselves.
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Season 9.5 = STO's NGE is Here! Welcome to the Grind!
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Last edited by azurianstar; 09-17-2012 at 09:50 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,653
# 83
09-17-2012, 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
There is a lot of enthusiasm in this thread, and while I appreciate that, my original (hypothetical) proposal was meant as a guideline of something that is feasible. Building 42 fully flushed out decks for one ship, is not feasible.

For those spouting that the Foundry room layout tool is the answer, remember that the foundry's room layout tools only work on a grid. You could make a "starship" interior with it, but it would all be square rooms, with square hallways, all lined up at 90 degree increments from each other. My memory isn't so good anymore, but I seem to remember a fair number of curved corridors and oddly shaped rooms from my ST watching.
Fallout 3 + G.E.C.K

Portal 2 + UGC

Mission editor for CnC Generals

Try thoose... might give you guys some ideas.
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-NEVER Forget the Screwups and ignorance made towards the people who supported the game through 2011
Don't look silly, don't call it "Zen-Store" - Don't waste devs time, Post proper bug-reports
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,039
# 84
09-17-2012, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
You could make a "starship" interior with it, but it would all be square rooms, with square hallways, all lined up at 90 degree increments from each other. My memory isn't so good anymore, but I seem to remember a fair number of curved corridors and oddly shaped rooms from my ST watching.
Er, no. I make lots of interiors.

I made this one in 4 hours: http://starbaseugc.com/wp-content/up...9/cubey009.jpg

It's very square, but that was of my choosing. I could have made it a circular room. We can rotate stuff to any angle that we want to. It would still be a little "boxey" since the props are not curved.

All of my fed interiors are curved hallways and usually non-square rooms. If we had more than 3 federation walls, it would help. All you guys would need to do is break up the standard fed interiors into lego pieces.

We've been asking for that for a year and a half. But, we can't even get a transporter pad.

Anyway, if you want to make a curved interior, then rotate the next set of walls 35 degrees.

Last edited by kirksplat; 09-17-2012 at 10:56 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,442
# 85
09-17-2012, 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
Er, no. I make lots of interiors.

I made this one in 4 hours: http://starbaseugc.com/wp-content/up...9/cubey009.jpg

It's very square, but that was of my choosing. I could have made it a circular room. We can rotate stuff to any angle that we want to. It would still be a little "boxey" since the props are not curved.

All of my fed interiors are curved hallways and usually non-square rooms. If we had more than 3 federation walls, it would help. All you guys would need to do is break up the standard fed interiors into lego pieces.

We've been asking for that for a year and a half. But, we can't even get a transporter pad.
I think this is one of those areas where it would make little sense to do the work twice by creating wall kits and then re-doing it for interiors, NW style.

From what I can see with the Neverwinter Foundry, they will probably have halls and rooms in a variety of lengths and styles. Curved. Straight. Different layouts and colors. And you will be able to plug them together, auto-creating a door. Then you can select the door and change it.

The only place I'm not sure this would help is with crazy holodeck dissolving maps and maybe maps that change dynamically... and that was always a bit of an exploit on Foundry authors' part. I don't know that they really foresaw or intended us doing that and it's generally bad form for multiplayer without doing some rather tricky stuff as an author.

I'd say that's generally true of most Foundry tricks and one reason I'm very cautious about them. I make a point not to design anything that multiplayer will break.

But if we get 12-15 styles and lenths of Fed hallway and plugging them into eachother or a room can create a door or archway, that's BETTER AND EASIER than what we have now. And it would be shortsighted to focus Foundry efforts on something that will be obsolete in 6-12 months.

I'd rather they focus on NPC pathing, making NPCs disappear, and plugging in more small assets, consoles (like, all of the TOS style consoles), and costumes. If they're going to spend effort on prefab stuff, I'd much rather see empty TOS decks and Defiant decks added, as I can see that having a longer lifespan for authors. Also, both Academy zones and some Klingon Academy brick style walls, fountains, etc.

In fact, I think they should probably focus on anything BUT interior design for the time being unless they're prepping hallways and blank rooms for NW-style construction already.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,442
# 86
09-17-2012, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
There is a lot of enthusiasm in this thread, and while I appreciate that, my original (hypothetical) proposal was meant as a guideline of something that is feasible. Building 42 fully flushed out decks for one ship, is not feasible.

For those spouting that the Foundry room layout tool is the answer, remember that the foundry's room layout tools only work on a grid. You could make a "starship" interior with it, but it would all be square rooms, with square hallways, all lined up at 90 degree increments from each other. My memory isn't so good anymore, but I seem to remember a fair number of curved corridors and oddly shaped rooms from my ST watching.
Couldn't you just have prefab curved hallways that act as "rooms" that can be linked? (Heck, depending on the curve, they could make a giant circle.)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,039
# 87
09-17-2012, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
I think this is one of those areas where it would make little sense to do the work twice by creating wall kits and then re-doing it for interiors, NW style.
Do we have any evidence that this interior builder is coming to STO's foundry? I don't remember hearing or seeing anything about it, except in the context of NW.

But, regardless, even with it, those set pieces would still be useful for custom maps, don't you think?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 422
# 88
09-17-2012, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacofangs View Post
No, we built the super base editor even before CoV (i.e. long before the sell off)

We heard very little praise back then for the editor, and got almost nothing but complaints. Our statistics showed that only about 10% of people used the base for anything other than a quick door to teleport around the rest of the world.

All of that is one reason we've been hesitant in doing it over again. We tried a new method with Hideouts in Champions, which seemed to be met with moderate success, but took a lot of work to build.

I've heard nothing about redoing ship interiors. My personal feeling is that there should be little customization on layout. If you have an Intrepid, you get an Intrepid class layout. If you have a Defiant, you get a Defiant class layout. But I think players should have control over a few different overall styles, textures, colors, and lighting. So all Galaxy Class ships would have the same layout, but you could choose from TNG style (beige, brightly lit) or 2409 style, or random style A, B or C. etc.

However, that is just my personal feelings on the matter, no work is being done on Interiors at the moment, and havent heard of it being added to the schedule at all. Plus, all of that would be a lot of work.
I agree, and some type of crew uniform, a boff placement tool, and the ability to reskin doff contacts as part of our crew
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,659
# 89
09-17-2012, 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by palpha2clearance View Post
I agree, and some type of crew uniform, a boff placement tool, and the ability to reskin doff contacts as part of our crew
Especially the first; if we could just pick a crew uniform, even if it was nothing but a list "TOS, TNG, TNG Movie, 2409, etc", most of the people unhappy with interiors would be MUCH happier.

That other stuff would be even better, but that one thing would be relatively easy to implement and would be HUGE for the folks who want to hang out in their ships.

It's a low-hanging watermelon.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,442
# 90
09-17-2012, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
Do we have any evidence that this interior builder is coming to STO's foundry? I don't remember hearing or seeing anything about it, except in the context of NW.

But, regardless, even with it, those set pieces would still be useful for custom maps, don't you think?
I'm doubtful they would work if they have walls that can magically disappear and be replaced by doors when placed adjacent another wall.

It seems to me like it's a very special kind of project asset... and either way, probably a longterm feature.

I don't disagree with you, depending on what is technically feasible. I just think they could stay busy for weeks or months just focusing on tagging and separating outdoor building kits and items, along with tagging character costumes and creating pathing.

So as a matter of efficiency, I'd rather see Tholian silk robes, Ferengi jackets, expanded TOS and TNG costumes, Ferasans... Heck, if they have time and resources to design new stuff, enemy groups that use different weapon types without using any of the exotic stuff, boss encounters. Maybe alternate or improved contact dialogues that don't break cloak. Background mattes for NPC contacts. Added prefab NPCs like the DOff Hamlet cast. Omega Force, MACO, and Honor Guard costumes for NPCs.

I think interior construction is one of those brilliant things authors have done that really falls outside the scope of what the core use of the Foundry is designed to be... and supporting that OVER other things supports Ziggurat construction by authors which takes longer, resulting in slower player development of Foundry missions.

Overall, I think it's better to focus on allowing players to build good missions more quickly and with less technical know-how than spend time supporting highly technical use.

What you're looking at is NICE but in that realm where you should be going for a job at Cryptic rather than pushing the Foundry towards being a full development tool that is cumbersome to use.
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