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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,905
Sounds crazy, does it not?

I bring this up because more and more ships are getting Universal BOFF slots. Some are moderate with Lt level slots. Some are potent with LtCmdr levels. Now there's a ship out there with Cmdr level BOFF slots. These newer ships with these Universal BOFF slots are not sacrificing anything for gaining their flexibility. They still keep the number and scope of BOFF slots that their ship should have for their archetype. But they now can be flexible while not giving up anything for their flexibility.

The BOP's once truly unique thing in the game was Universal BOFF slots. It sacrificed alot to get that, esp. for a completely Universal layout by sacrificing even more by cutting down the amount of total BOFF abilities one can load.

But again, more and more ships are getting Universal BOFF slots while not sacrificing anything. They still have good regular slots that a solid build requires to build on. Yet newer ships do not share any of the same concerns as the BOP for their increasing flexibility.

The newer ships with Universal slots:
- Do not slack off on total number of BOFF skills for their archetype.
- Do not slack off on hullpoints for their archetype.
- Do not slack off on total Consoles for their archetype.
- Do not slack off on Weapon Slots for their archetype.
- Do not slack off on Equipment & Device Slots for their archetype.
- Do not slack off on Shield Strength for becoming increasingly flexible.
- There is no skewing of speed and maneuverability since they retain their ship archtype's basic qualities.

On and on.

Right now things are still doable with the BOP. But this will become an issue down the road, with the devs throwing Universal BOFF slots out like candy with none of the restrictions for having such flexibility. There are ships out there 1 or 2 universal slots. There is a ship out there now with a Commander Universal slot (if that doesn't raise eyebrows, I don't know what will). None of the newer ships give up an ounce of anything for flexibility.

It's time that the BOP starts getting stronger since newer ships have done away with the original game balance that the BOP was based under.

Last edited by warmaker001b; 07-22-2012 at 03:23 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,431
# 2
07-22-2012, 03:34 AM
I must say I agree with the OP, alot.

The BOP is the quint essential Klingon ship, and it was given a royal #$% in the SB ships. Why?

I highly doubt that the new ships will be competitive in any combat PvP-based. I would even go as far to say that in PvE they will be just as useless. I would like to see a 16k hull survive a Borg crit. Sigh, the list goes on.

If I would like to see a proper fleet BOP, I would have hoped for something along these lines

4x fore weapons
3x aft weapons

32,000 hull
shield 0.9
turn rate 17

4 engineering consoles
1 sci consoles
5 tac consoles

1x CMDR Universal
1x LT CMDR Universal
1x ENG Lt.
1x SCI Lt.
1x Ensign Universal

This is just about the same as the Fleet Patrol Escort, just with a little less hull, and more offensive like the Defiant. It is a raider after all...

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 07-22-2012 at 03:39 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 277
# 3
07-22-2012, 06:10 AM
Don't forget the stupid 3-second decloak when firing a torpedo from B'rel.

There are at least a few methods of disabling an opponent cloak. It would be a lot more fun if players had to take invisible foes into consideration.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 4
07-22-2012, 07:36 AM
Yes, but a SHIp, WITH BATTLECLOAK

is just gravely overpowered.

really? NERF THE HULL BACK TO 10K

And dont give it more then 3 tac consolesk kthxchnk!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 48
# 5
07-22-2012, 08:08 AM
Battlecloak overpowerd? lol i often see Bop ploping like bubbles if they try to cloak while in combat. So they need to run out of range to do it, like a Defiant. Only little bonus, if i out of range i can cloak instant instead of waiting for red alert goes away. Oh and dont forget torps they already fly can hit a battlecloaked ship (no shields)
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,540
# 6
07-22-2012, 09:58 AM
I am on the fence here, no ship has more than two Universal BOFFs that I know of. Where as the BoP is completely Universal.

Now there are two ways to fix the BoP one is add a Universal Ensign, the other is to make a Lieutenant into a Lieutenant Commander.

That being said there is always a Federation thread asking for all ships to be given a Universal make over. And I know I'd be far more tolerant of Universals on KDF ships. The Qin Raptor with a Universal Ensign would be a very nice upgrade allowing it to do what both Fed Escorts can do. I'd still probably run mine as a Tac but. I own the Garumba after all.

The new Carrier being a faction neutral ship I don't think I'm bothered by it getting the ability to run a Universal Commander. Considering the Kar'Fi still has a better turn rate. Infact I'm not worried by any of the lock box ships having Universals.

Please ignore marctraiderz and don't feed the Trolls.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,905
# 7
07-22-2012, 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
I am on the fence here, no ship has more than two Universal BOFFs that I know of. Where as the BoP is completely Universal.

Now there are two ways to fix the BoP one is add a Universal Ensign, the other is to make a Lieutenant into a Lieutenant Commander.

That being said there is always a Federation thread asking for all ships to be given a Universal make over. And I know I'd be far more tolerant of Universals on KDF ships. The Qin Raptor with a Universal Ensign would be a very nice upgrade allowing it to do what both Fed Escorts can do. I'd still probably run mine as a Tac but. I own the Garumba after all.

The new Carrier being a faction neutral ship I don't think I'm bothered by it getting the ability to run a Universal Commander. Considering the Kar'Fi still has a better turn rate. Infact I'm not worried by any of the lock box ships having Universals.

Please ignore marctraiderz and don't feed the Trolls.
That's the thing. The BOP has initial-game design compromises to keep it inline with the other ships the game launched with.

For its tremendous flexibility, the BOP:
- Less total BOFF skills to be assigned.
- Lowest hulls in the game in every tier (watch out when you hit that Cloak button!).
- +/- Rounded out console slots to do a variety of configurations, but not quite excelling in any purpose-built direction. Price for flexibility.
- Along with other sci-vessels, low armament numbers (6).

With the later introduction of ships with Universal BOFF slots (not just talking S6 here), other craft are reaping the same benefits of flexible Universal slots without taking any hit whatsoever in any portion of the ship's ability, stats, performance, and what the ship adheres to in the archetype they belong to.

The Bortasqu, Odyssey, Nebula Cruisers. The Galor and (LOL) Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. And now the new Tholian Carrier (Cmdr Universal). All have Universal slots to a degree. And yet when you look at all their stats, total BOFF slots, everything, they have had no design compromises whatsoever.

Flexibility is being tossed around like candy but with no compromises having to be made.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 8
07-22-2012, 10:28 AM
A simpler solution is to make the BoP's not only closer to canon but also the premier and most terrifying ship to have decloak in your face.


Solution:

Lets be realistic. PWE/Cryptic doesnt give a crap about gameplay balance or KDF in general... all they care about is cash. Selling ships with universal boff slots is cash.

So, to make the BoP unique without changing its boff layout they simply need to change their weapon slot layout.

Right now it is 4 fore/3 aft.

umm... why? No bird of prey ever seen on the screen fired aft. None. Ever. All their firepower was fore and they had but one instance of them using mines.

So change it to 6 fore 1 aft.

Easy. That way the BoP can have massive gun AND torpedo firepower in the forward arc and the maneuverability advantage to use it.. and the 1 aft slot to put a mine or whatever.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,365
# 9
07-22-2012, 01:02 PM
It'd be nice as a 2000-2500-point premium ship maybe, an 'Advanced Heavy BoP' as a 2409 successor to the K'vort, with the extra hull and an ensign instead of the usual gimmick console. I don't see them ever ugprading the basic T5 ship though, as for all their latter-day upgrades as the game progresses, those upgrades are always to the C-store ships.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 10
07-22-2012, 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
A simpler solution is to make the BoP's not only closer to canon but also the premier and most terrifying ship to have decloak in your face.


Solution:

Lets be realistic. PWE/Cryptic doesnt give a crap about gameplay balance or KDF in general... all they care about is cash. Selling ships with universal boff slots is cash.

So, to make the BoP unique without changing its boff layout they simply need to change their weapon slot layout.

Right now it is 4 fore/3 aft.

umm... why? No bird of prey ever seen on the screen fired aft. None. Ever. All their firepower was fore and they had but one instance of them using mines.

So change it to 6 fore 1 aft.

Easy. That way the BoP can have massive gun AND torpedo firepower in the forward arc and the maneuverability advantage to use it.. and the 1 aft slot to put a mine or whatever.
Not sure which cave u came from but The Heghta and B'rel retrofit both always had 4 Front, 2 aft.
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