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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 11
07-23-2012, 10:52 PM
On the contrary, a single RCS console do wonders, provided it is of sufficiently high grade and rarity. When you enter combat drop your speed to between one-half and three-quarters impulse. Your turn radius will be tight enough that you should be able to get your torpedo launchers into firing arc more often than not.

But as ussultimatum said, beams arrays will still make up the bulk of your firepower. And I can't justify the dual beam banks. You will have a difficult enough time keeping your target in your forward arc. When that occurs, your torpedoes will deal more than enough damage. For the rest of the time, you be spending a lot of time at broadsides, so freeing up the DBB slot and replacing it with a beam array will significantly improve your damage dealing capacity.

Finally, consider looking into a single mine launcher. They are surprisingly useful. The wide spread of the launch will dissuade anyone from trying to attack you from the rear and instead go for your stronger front or formidable flanks. A well-timed launch will cause high-yield plasma torpedoes to re-target towards the mines instead. I can't tell you how many times this has happened for me, and there's a miniscule chance the spread might confuse a torpedo spread into targeting the mines instead of your teammates. In theory anyway, haven't checked if it works in practice.

And if you set the mine launcher on autofire, well... Think of a puppy that hasn't been housebroken yet.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 12
07-24-2012, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmenara View Post
Might want to go through some power management strategies before proposing the 8 beam loadout.
1) EDIT: Changed my original post as what I posted and what I remembered posting were in-congruent.
2) Power management was already provided in the BOFF template with 2x EPTW 1.

There is nothing to it beyond that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by carmenara View Post
By contrast most of the high performing teammates in PvEs, ESTFs and new fleet actions do use torpedoes effectively for coordinated burst damage.
Torpedos are not ideal for cruisers. They lack the Tac slots and turn rate to make effective use of them.

Even the AC with its base 7 turn rate still has to pull its rear beams off of targets to use a forward torpedo.

In fleet actions NPC ships can often be destroyed before a torpedo can even cover the distance to a target, and the big ships are generally designed to withstand that kind of burst through massive hull values.

And last, burst damage is the purview of escorts.

You can try to shoehorn some burst onto a Cruiser but it really is not optimal.

That's what the OP here is looking for, he's looking to improve beyond what he is currently running and the best way he can do that is to drop at least 2 of the 3 unneeded weapons he has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carmenara View Post
DPS is not the only thing that matters in that environment, and I would simply ditch the threat control function altogether if OP is still learning his Boff setup.
This is the worst advice to anyone flying a cruiser.

You're saying that DPS is not that important and that he should also ditch threat control?

DPS does matter. Many enemies are still giant masses of hull.


Cruisers without threat control are the bane of PvE Fleet actions. They think their DPS is useful, they don't heal anyone and they don?t hold threat.

End result: Sci ships and Escorts take the brunt of attacks and end up doing most of the heavy lifting.

Cruisers need to be built for either healing or threat control, or a combination of both.

So if the OP is uncomfortable with holding threat, then he will need to build for more heals for the ships that will be taking damage for him.
I know a lot of people dislike typical MMO roles, and we are lucky in this game that we are given some flexibility within standard MMO roles.

However that doesn't elements of those roles are non-existent.

I've been grinding Fleet Actions in the queue since they went live, playing a Sci ship, a Cruiser and an Escort. The last thing I want to see are 4 cruisers none of whom apparently have threat control.

Low damage, non-threat ships that don't heal anyone are not a benefit to any group.

You don't have to hold threat, and you don't have to heal but you need to at least be doing one of them to really be useful.

Support DPS is also a part of the role, but it is secondary to the rest of what a Cruiser brings to the table.

Last edited by ussultimatum; 07-24-2012 at 07:32 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,178
# 13
07-24-2012, 10:32 AM
from some one who flys mostly cruisers learning how to properly chain powers when you have never done it before takes time to get the rhythm down. putting 8 beams and giving him the boff powers and telling him to go out will result in you coming back and complaining about a worthless damaging cruiser that is not healing or tanking

6 is the best for the learning curve with a front and rear torp. 8 is not optimal i do not care what forums say my power even when chaining 2 EPTW would still drop to below 75 then damage is less then 6 beams any ways.


and i fly a galaxy and do not have any issues getting my front or rear on target even with out ditching the saucer


i do not run threat control and still get aggro in a galaxy running 6 beams and 2 torps
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 14
07-24-2012, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpgtx View Post
from some one who flys mostly cruisers learning how to properly chain powers when you have never done it before takes time to get the rhythm down. putting 8 beams and giving him the boff powers and telling him to go out will result in you coming back and complaining about a worthless damaging cruiser that is not healing or tanking.

I suggested the following:

"Stick with 6 beam arrays minimum. 7 or 8 would be best."

That does leave some room for interpretation, I'll edit the original post.

However, I do not see how having 6, 7 or 8 beams will suddenly change how many buttons he will need to press.

BFAW is BFAW. You're going to press it once for all of your beams.

So unless you are a lunatic, and you are manually firing each and every beam without using any form of macro or spacebar I really would like for you to explain how more beams affects how he is going to chain his powers. (actually having less weapons to fire, like torpedos, will mean it will be easier to concentrate on other powers, not harder like you claim)

You, and several others, keep making the assumption we need to completely hold the OPs hand.

He's running MK XII borg gear already, he's obviously able to function in space combat I think he can figure out cycling EPTW 1.

If he would like a macro to chain his EPTX powers, we can help with that or he can find the really excellent guides already posted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gpgtx View Post
6 is the best for the learning curve with a front and rear torp. 8 is not optimal i do not care what forums say my power even when chaining 2 EPTW would still drop to below 75 then damage is less then 6 beams any ways.

Front and rear torps are additions that will see him losing his optimal 70 degree broadside to fire a one off, nearly pointless quantum torpedo.

From my (admittedly limited) testing of beam DPS:

7 Beams > 8 Beams > 6 Beams

There were a few things I tried that saw 8 beams beating the rest, but I'm not going to go into them here.





Quote:
Originally Posted by gpgtx View Post
and i fly a galaxy and do not have any issues getting my front or rear on target even with out ditching the saucer


i do not run threat control and still get aggro in a galaxy running 6 beams and 2 torps

So you are saying that when you fire your torpedos against mobile enemies you can also keep your rear beams on target?

You must instruct us all on how you manage to perform this magic trick.


Without threat control you will never hold aggro next to a well designed escort.

Last edited by ussultimatum; 07-24-2012 at 07:30 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 15
07-24-2012, 02:41 PM
Actually, the Assault Cruiser is more maneuverable than you think. Sure, he won't be able to keep his forward tubes on the target all the time, but it's simple to just sweep through the arc. Once the target leaves the forward torpedo's arc, it is automatically in range of the rear beam array's arc.

And you only need one second to fire torpedoes.

And yeah, threat control is pretty much recommended. For the damage resistance buff if nothing else.

Last edited by matridunadan1; 07-24-2012 at 02:44 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 16
07-24-2012, 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matridunadan1 View Post
Actually, the Assault Cruiser is more maneuverable than you think.
I know exactly how maneuverable it is, because I own one.

That's not actually the point I'm making though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by matridunadan1 View Post
Sure, he won't be able to keep his forward tubes on the target all the time, but it's simple to just sweep through the arc. Once the target leaves the forward torpedo's arc, it is automatically in range of the rear beam array's arc.
You are better off keeping your target in your broadside arc, than wasting your time with them fore and aft to fire off a torpedo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by matridunadan1 View Post
And you only need one second to fire torpedoes.
How many seconds to bring your nose on target?

How many more to bring your 70 degree broadside back on target?

How many total seconds did you lose?

Did you guarantee a hit against unshielded hull?

Did you use one of your 3 (Assault Cruiser) precious Tac slots for HYT or Torp Spread or are you firing a single, one off torpedo with no skill to back it up?

Will the resulting damage always, unequivocally, be massively better than just keeping your broadside arc for all of those seconds?


I can't answer any of these questions definitively, but my DPS parsings tell me the answer to the last question is "no".



I don't mean to come across as harsh.

I run a single fore mounted trico for fun. I just know that it's for fun, and that my beams are doing all of the important work.

If the OP wants to keep a quantum, because that's fun for them, then go for it.

Just be sure to optimize the rest of the weapon load out and use 6 or preferably 7 beam arrays.

Last edited by ussultimatum; 07-24-2012 at 07:33 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
# 17
07-24-2012, 10:35 PM
As a side note to the ongoing discussion, is the MU Assault Cruiser really meant to look like the regular Star Cruiser?

From the artwork in the advert for the Tholian update, which shows an Assault Cruiser and Star Cruiser alongside the Tholian and Klingon ships, I assumed that it would just be a reskin of the existing hull, but instead the unpacked ship looks like a Star Cruiser.

I even checked to see if I could change the appearance, but the hull options are for the Vanguard and other Star Cruiser versions, not the Sovereign, etc.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 18
07-24-2012, 10:57 PM
Considering no one sits still to take a pounding and will rotate to bring shields to bear, not likely. Even a shielded impact will do considerably more damage to mitigate the lost DPS from the beams. And if you manage to hit an unshielded hull? All the more satisfying.

Besides, you're running a tricobalt but (I suspect) without High Yield. That right there is a massively wasted potential, especially since high-yield tricobalts also come with a possible AoE chroniton proc. You should consider that.

To the OP, I'd like to recommend investing in a Subspace Jump console from the Exchange. It won't help you offensively, but it is great defensively to give you a few seconds breather while at the same time letting you pop off torpedoes before your target can react.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillybrit View Post
I even checked to see if I could change the appearance, but the hull options are for the Vanguard and other Star Cruiser versions, not the Sovereign, etc.
On the plus side, you unlock the "Mirror" material for normal Star Cruisers. Same with the other cruiser. I checked.

Last edited by matridunadan1; 07-25-2012 at 12:14 AM. Reason: Me idiot.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,529
# 19
07-24-2012, 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillybrit View Post
As a side note to the ongoing discussion, is the MU Assault Cruiser really meant to look like the regular Star Cruiser?

From the artwork in the advert for the Tholian update, which shows an Assault Cruiser and Star Cruiser alongside the Tholian and Klingon ships, I assumed that it would just be a reskin of the existing hull, but instead the unpacked ship looks like a Star Cruiser.

I even checked to see if I could change the appearance, but the hull options are for the Vanguard and other Star Cruiser versions, not the Sovereign, etc.
Actually yes the whole point of the Mirror Universe ships is to get a Star Cruiser shaped like a Sovereign (and a yellowish paint job) and a Assault Cruiser shaped like a Emmisary.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 131
# 20
08-10-2012, 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillybrit View Post
As a side note to the ongoing discussion, is the MU Assault Cruiser really meant to look like the regular Star Cruiser?
I will admit with hat in hand that I actually /bugged what I thought was an art mismatch during the unboxing.

Fortunately there was a typo in something else, so I actually apologised for the previous /bug report with the second. That's the gentlemanly thing to do.

=/\= Transwarp 10.0 Victory Achieved on 26-July-2012, Six Months After F2P =/\=
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