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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
Now that fleet shipyards are going active, it's time to have a look at the new ships that are coming available and see if they are worth getting.

I know that people look for different things in a ship and I'm not going to try to say that one category of ship is better than another. I do generally prefer tactical ships myself, but it is not my intent to impose my views of them onto others. Instead I will analyse each ship in terms of "benchmarks," existing ships which are similar to the one being considered. I will show how each given ship is different (better or worse) than the one it is being compared to.

Of course, the new fleet-only ships fall into two categories: the so-called "Fleet" ships and non-fleet ships. You have to be in a fleet to get either of them but the Fleet ships require a fleet requisition, which requires that real money be paid in the form of Zen points, whereas a non-fleet ship only requires that fleet credits be spent (though it requires ten times as many). Wherever possible I will compare a ship to a ship of the same category, i.e. a Fleet ship should be compared to a ship that costs Zen, whereas a non-fleet ship should be compared to one of the ship types that you receive free at 40th level.

Yes, I know you can also buy one for 120,000 dilithium though I expect it is probably easier to get that than 200,000 fleet credits; you can grind that much in 15 days and you don't have to kiss your fleet leaders' behinds to do it.

Likewise the comparison between Fleet ships and Zen ships is not perfect, since a ship you purchase with Zen is playable on all your characters of that faction whereas a Fleet ship is only playable on the character that earned it. If you only have one character this is not an issue, but if you have eight (like myself - and I soon will have more) it makes a big difference. Since I have four KDF characters, when I bought the Guramba I was basically buying four of them.

Nevertheless I am going to try to evaluate the ships in comparison to existing ones. I rate them from one star (worst) to five stars (best). This is my rating scheme:

* Abysmal
The ship is considerably weaker than ships of its type (free or Zen) and offers no new loadout or abilities to make it worth experimenting with.

** Poor
The ship is either considerably weaker than ships of its type, but has some new design feature that sets it apart, or has no new features and is only slightly weaker than existing ships of its type.

*** Average
This ship is either comparable in power to an existing ship type or slightly weaker but adding new or interesting features. In my mind a fleet ship should be better than a ship of similar price since you also need to spend fleet credits to get it, but an average ship will make a worthwhile playing experience if you like that type of ship.

**** Good
This ship adds new features to existing ships with no loss in power or has no new features but is somewhat stronger. These are ships you should definitely consider getting.

***** Outstanding
This ship adds new features but is also more powerful than existing ships. I would say that these are a great value and are worth getting but also that you might find out that down the road PWE has nerfed them when players complain that they are too powerful.


=== KDF Tier 1 ===

Fleet Qin Raptor
Benchmark: Qin Raptor
Rating: ***

I know I said that I would compare paid ships to paid ships but in this case the closest comparison is naturally to the unpaid version of this ship. In this case, the Fleet Qin is superior to the Qin in a variety of ways. This is as you would expect for a paid version of an unpaid ship.

Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot, +10% Hull, +10% Shields.
Cons: None.

The differences in the Fleet Qin Raptor make it a much hardier version of the basic Qin, while keeping the same DPS potential of the Qin (or if you add an engineering console that boosts weapon power then DPS will increase slightly). If you like flying Raptors then the Qin is a good buy. However it doesn't bring anything new to the game; it is just a souped-up Raptor, so if you like Raptors and don't mind paying for one I would get this, but otherswise you could hold out for something better.

In case you want to compare the Fleet Qin to the Guramba, here is the stats for that comparison. As you can see it still compares rather favourably:

Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot, +17% Hull, +2% Shields, +5 Weapon Power level, Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot, Cloaking Device
Cons: -33% Crew, -5 Engine Power Level, No Engineering Ensign Bridge Slot, No Javelin



Fleet Scourge Retrofit
Benchmark: Guramba Siege Destroyer
Rating: ***

The Fleet Scourge Destroyer is an interesting design. Essentially similar to a Guramba, it exchanges the engineering ensign slot with a science ensign slot, allowing for a more science-focused Destroyer build. It also has a small turn rate buff; enough to be nice but not enough to be game-breaking.

Pros: +1 Science Console Slot, +2% Shields, +2 Turn Rate, Science Ensign Bridge Slot
Cons: -33% Crew, No Engineering Ensign Bridge Slot, No Javelin

As you can see the differences seem to offset each other fairly well, so I give this a rating of ***. However, if you already had bought the original Scourge Destroyer and are eligible for a Zen discount when buying this I would bump up the rating to ****.


Scourge Retrofit
Benchmark: Qin Raptor
Rating: ***

I consider the Scourge Destroyer Retrofit to be the "Poor Man's Guramba" since it plays similarly to a Guramba but is weaker and does not cost any Zen to buy. I am comparing it to a Qin though since the Qin is also a free ship.

Pros: +5 Engine Power level, Engineering Ensign Bridge Slot, +2 Turn Rate
Cons: -5 Weapon Power Level, -13% Hull, No Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot, No Cloaking Device

As you can see in this case, you sacrifice your cloaking device and 13% of your hull points for a small turn rate increase and a swap of your ensign tactical slot to engineering. I'm not sure that it is worth it although if you don't use your cloak much then maybe it is worthwhile. Nevertheless the Scourge Refit is a weak ship and you may find that you are forced to use that extra engineering ensign for ship heals to counter the fact that you have considerably less hull. If you really would like a good DPS ship that has that extra engineer then you could get this one but I would just be inclined to stick with the Qin. If you like the higher turn rate then I would recommend a bird-of-prey instead.

If you simply consider this to be an unpaid version of the Guramba this is how it stacks up against that:

Pros: +2 Turn Rate
Cons: -9% Hull, -8% Shields, -33% Crew, No Javelin.


Fleet K'T'Inga Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Retrofit
Rating: *

I would have liked to compare the Fleet K'T'inga to a paid cruiser but the only one at this level is the Bortas'Qu and that is so different it would not be a good comparison. So I am comparing it to an unpaid ship with the expectation that as a paid ship it should be noticeably superior to the free Vor'Cha. Unfortunately, it is not better; it is in fact noticeably worse.

Pros: +1 Turn Rate, +1 Science Console Slot
Cons: -7% Hull, -6% Shield, -47% Crew

As you can see you are getting a console slot and a small turn rate buff for a noticable decrease in survivability. The extra console is nice but I can't remember ever hearing anyone say that the problem with the Vor'Cha is that it doesn't have enough science consoles. These stats would I think be acceptable in a free ship but not in a paid one. The look of the K'Tinga is classic but if you really want to fly around in one I would just get the Commander-Level one for a small amount of dilithium. Frankly if you are willing to spend $20 on this then I would suggest that I would be willing to punch you in the balls for a fee of only $10, which is a much better value.

It is unclear if owning the Koro'T'Inga gives you a discount on this ship or not. If it does and you already happen to have the Koro'T'Inga then I would upgrade this to **, but for God's sake don't go and buy the Koro'T'Inga just so you can get a better price for this ship.


K'T'Inga Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Retrofit
Rating: *

The free K'T'inga Retrofit is just as much of an insult as the Fleet K'T'Inga, but at least it only cost you 200,000 fleet credits which took you weeks to grind out. The stats of this ship are so awful compared to the Vor'Cha that I really wish I could avoid listing them, but then someone might not believe me and go and buy this ship, so for your sakes I am listing them:

Pros: +1 Turn Rate
Cons: -13% Hull, -15% Shields, -47% Crew.

For God's sake do not buy this ship until PWE gets around to beefing its stats (if it ever does). If you really want fly a cruiser you would be better off deleting your character and staring over, earning the Vor'Cha Retrofit at level 40 for free. There's just no way to make this ship worthwhile. The only reason I can see for getting it is because you are a veteran player who wants to humiliate his enemies in PvP by killing them with a completely worthless ship. Yes, that would be humiliating all right.



=== KDF Tier 2 ===

Somraw Raptor Retrofit
Benchmark: Qin Raptor
Rating: **

It is curious that PWE chose the Somraw to make a fleet ship out of since the original ship is a lieutenant commander level ship and is never encountered among players (though technically it is buyable - there's just no reason you ever would buy one). In this case the Somraw Retrofit becomes a raptor with an engineering ensign bridge slot instead of a tactical one. I know this is something that a lot of players would like to see, but in this case it costs you dearly to get it.

Pros: +1 Turn Rate, +1 Engineering Ensign Bridge slot.
Cons: -5% Hull, -22% Shields, -50% Crew, No Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot.

In this case the extreme reduction in shield strength means that that extra engineering slot is desperately needed to keep your ship alive. So sadly this ship doesn't really measure up and I would not recommend getting it. If you want a free ship with this load you should probably get the Scourge Retrofit instead unless you really really need that cloaking device.


Fleet Somraw Raptor Retrofit
Benchmark: Guramba Siege Destroyer
Rating: **

Since the Somraw Retrofits have an engineering ensign instead of a tactical ensign it is reasonable to compare them to Destroyers instead of Raptors, though it does have a cloaking device. In this case the cloaking device is the main difference between this ship and a Guramba. So let's see what that cloaking device costs us:

Pros: +5 Weapon Power, +1 Science Console Slot, +10% Hull, +1 Turn Rate, Cloaking Device
Cons: -5 Engine Power, -21% Shields, -66% Crew, No Javelin.

The extra science console slot is nice, though why it's a science console and not a tac or eng console mystifies me. The extra hull is also nice and the turn bonus is marginal but always welcome. But in my mind losing over a fifth of your shields is a very serious drawback, one that is not compensated for getting the cloak, which never seems to do a lot other than give its user a brief 15% damage buff at the start of combat. Since you also lose the Javelin in this trade I don't see it as an advantage. Frankly if you want to fly an improved raptor the Fleet Qin is a much better buy. In fact, here's how it stacks up against the Fleet Qin:

Pros: +1 Turn Rate, +1 Engineering Ensign Bridge slot, +1 Science Console Slot.
Cons: -5% Hull, -23% Shields, -50% Crew, -1 Tacical Ensign Bridge slot, -1 Engineering Console Slot.

Would you give up an engineering console and a quarter of your shields to get a science console and replace your tac ensign with an eng ensign? No, me neither. To add insult to injury there is no paid version of the original Somraw so you have to pay the full $20 to get this ship.



Fleet Tor'Kaht Cruiser Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Retrofit
Rating: ****

Though not everyone likes crusers this one is definitely the best Fleet ship available to the KDF so far in terms of what it does for them. Essentially the Tor'Kaht is a more tactically oriented cruiser which is something that I think a lot of cruiser captains would like to see. It does seem strange to me that this ship is called a "Retrofit" since I am unaware of any normal Tor'Kaht Cruisers available in the game. Unfortunately this also means there is no paid version of a base ship for this fleet vessel, meaning there is no discount available on it. But I expect it will sell well regardless.

I did have to compare it to an unpaid ship though as there are no top-tier paid cruisers aside from the Bortas'qu which is not a good comparison. In this light we expect that the Tor'Kaht has to be considerably better than the Vor'cha just to make an average rating. But not only is it better than the Vor'Cha stat-wise but it also has a more interesting loadout.

Pros: +10% Hull, +10 Shields, +1 Tactical Console, Tactical Ensign slot upgraded to Lt. Commander
Cons: Engineering Lt. Commander slot downgraded to Ensign.

The improvement of your Tactical power does come at the expense of some of your engineering bridge officer abilities, but the improvement in your hull and shield strength in my mind makes up for this, and Klingon cruiser captains will be happy to see that they now have a cruiser with some real firepower.



=== KDF Tier 3 ===

Corsair Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Refit
Rating: *****

It was tough to decide which free ship to compare this one to, because it has fighters like a Vo'Quv but has engineering power and weapons like a Cruiser (I suppose that's why this is called a"Flight-Deck Cruiser"). Stat-wise it's a lot closer to a Vor'Cha Refit cruiser so I'll start there.

Pros: +5 Shield & Aux Power, +1 Science Console, +1 Science Ensign Bridge Slot, +16% Crew, +1 Device, +1 Hangar Bay.
Cons: -5 Weapon & Engine Power, -1 Tactical Console, -1 Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot, -2 Turn Rate.

Basically this ship functions a lot like a science-oriented version of a Vor'Cha refit, replacing the tac ensign and console with a science one. But on top of that you get an extra device and a hangar bay for fighters. All you lose in the swap is 2 points of Turn Rate. Yes, the turn rate loss hurts but with your engineering abilities and extra device slot you are able to boost it if you want. In my mind this makes for a very good trade.

Against the Vo'Quv it looks quite different:

Pros: +5 Shield, Weapon, & Engine Power, +1 Engineering Console, +1 Engineering Commander Bridge Slot, +2 Weapons, +3 Turn Rate.
Cons: -5 Auxiliary Power, -15% Hull, -56% Crew, -1 Hangar Bay, -1 Science Console, Tactical Lt. Commander Bridge Slot downgraded to Lieutenant, Science Commander Bridge Slot downgraded to Ensign, no Subsystem Targeting.

So we see that the science focus is switched to engineering and a hangar bay and 15% hull is lost but we get a 60% turn rate bonus and two more weapons. This in my mind is a good trade.

Finally you could also compare it to the Marauder Flight-Deck Cruiser which is a paid ship. The stats are almost the same; you lose 6% Hull and 8% crew but gain a point of Turn rate, which considering the Marauder's slow rate of turn is a trade I'd gladly make. So the Corsair Retrofit turns out to be slightly better than a similar paid ship and yet it is a free ship.

Since this ship does things that no other free ship does and seems more powerful that the Vor'Cha and the Vo'Quv, I rate this as *****. Though those of you who don't like to fly cruisers might not enjoy this one, it is overall by far the best non-fleet ship available.



Fleet Corsair Retrofit
Benchmark: Marauder Flight-Deck Cruiser
Rating: ****

Since a paid flight-deck cruiser exists in the game (the Marauder) it makes sense to start the comparison there:

Pros: +1 Science Console, +1 Science Ensign Bridge Slot upgraded to Lt. Commander, +10% Shields, +1 Turn Rate.
Cons: -1 Engineering Lt. Commander Bridge Slot downgraded to Ensign, -8% Crew.

So once again we see that like the non-fleet version this ship outclasses its competition and yet does something new. It takes the Marauder and adds some shields and turn rate, and at the same time moves it from an engineering focus to one more balanced between engineering and science. I don't think this ship is as good a deal as the non-fleet version but it does things that no other KDF ship does and doesn't suffer for it. If you like cruisers or carriers this is a good buy. And if you like science abilities you could consider this ship a *****.



Fleet Norgh Bird-of-Prey Retrofit
Benchmark: Hegh'Ta Bird-of-Prey
Rating: **

Since the only paid Bird-of-Prey (the B'Rel Refit) is valuable because of a very powerful ability and not for its stats, the best comparison for the Fleet Norgh is the free Hegh'Ta. Like the others we would expect that the Fleet Norgh is superior to the free Hegh'Ta. However the value of the Fleet Norgh is in it's bridge officer layout; one of the Lieutenant bridge slots becomes a Lt. Commander slot. And there's a lot of useful abilities that you can only get at rank 3 or higher, so that slot is valuable. However you lose a lot to get it:

Pros: +1 Lieutenant Universal Bridge Slot upgraded to Lt. Commander, +1 Turn Rate
Cons: -31% Hull, -18% Shields, -25% Crew.

So the enhanced bridge slot comes at a price of severe loss in survivability. The Hegh'Ta already pops pretty easily and now we see a huge drop in shields and hull. This is not a trade I would be willing to make. It might be all right in a free ship (though I'm still not sure about that) but losing all that defense and having to shell out Zen seems ridiculous. I wanted to rate this ship as a * but the fact that the ship does give you something new makes it not a complete write-off.

The one upside to this is that if you are willing to pay for ships then you probably have bought the original Norgh Refit upgrade (the Ning'Tao) because it gave you those quad disruptor cannons which are always useful. Therefore if you are considering getting this ship you probably only need 500 Zen instead of 2000, and if you want this ship I would suggest getting the original Ning'Tao for 1000 Zen and this ship for 500 Zen rather than shelling out 2000 Zen for this up front. However, even if this ship is only going to cost you $5 instead of $20 I would still just take your quad cannons and put them on your free Hegh'Ta. PWE really needs to boost this ship's defenses before anyone takes it seriously.


-----------

Unfortunately I hit a character limit so I can't fit all 5 tiers into one post. So you'll find tiers 4 and 5 here:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...01#post5103501

Enjoy!

Last edited by smi3th; 08-02-2012 at 04:03 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 2
07-23-2012, 01:08 AM
Dilithium and Expertise convert to Fleet Points at a rate of 1:1.

If you've been L50 for awhile you have a spare million or 4 Expertise. You just need to be able to contribute it. In a big fleet this will be hard in a small fleet not so much.

Let's not forget Fleet Marks are easy to get and reward 150, but you do need 1340 of them roughly.

This is a really good comparison are you doing the other ships too? I'm not sure if I like the concept of the Vor'Cha refit.

Edit:
I swear at one stage I was getting those numbers but perhaps it was an error.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.

Last edited by dknight0001; 07-26-2012 at 01:54 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1
# 3
07-23-2012, 02:18 PM
I think you are vastly underestimating the value of certain stats and features on ships.

For example, the Scourge Retrofit. You are benching it against a raptor when it isn't meant to be a raptor. Its features are extremely similar to the jem bug ship and its boff layout is how most pvpers would setup the bug as well. If anything you should be comparing it to the fleet escort, or the bug ship.

Considering the boff layout, turn rate, console slots, I'd say this is an excellent ship for its price. Its only real drawback in my opinion would be its lower shield modifier. Saying the lack of a tac ensign slot is a drawback is rather silly as well, since the slot is generally considered a waste as it is. The extra engi ensign slot is vastly superior.

Basically it's a more agile, less tanky fleet escort. Seems perfect.

Of course I'm talking form a pvp perspective. What other perspective is there, really? When the pve content is easy enough to do in any ship with nearly any setup, there's really only one other option. After all, if your build does well in pvp it will steamroll anything in pve.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 55
# 4
07-23-2012, 10:47 PM
I've got a KDF toon, and so I'm waiting for the "reviews" on the fleet cruisers and the fleet vo'quv.

However, can someone do this for fed fleet ships, too?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Formerly Traven158
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
# 5
07-23-2012, 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
Dilithium and Expertise convert to Fleet Points at a rate of 1:1.

If you've been L50 for awhile you have a spare million or 4 Expertise. You just need to be able to contribute it. In a big fleet this will be hard in a small fleet not so much.
Dilithium converts at 1:1. Expertise does not; cashing in 10,000 expertise gives you 400 fleet credits, so that's 25:1. At least it has every time I have done it.

My fleet isn't that large but there are enough active players that most of the easy contributions are snapped up within a minute of a project going active. I am only able to cash in expertise by camping out and donating the second a project comes live. Most of our projects I have missed the start time and got the "scraps." Most of the credits I have earned so far have been from Doffs and from Fleet Marks though I have dropped in commodities and expertise as well. I am currently at about 170,000 credits, and am fifth or sixth in the rankings in my fleet.

The problem is if you are in a small fleet the projects take a long time to complete which means more opportunites to cash in on any given project but less projects overall so it balances out I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
Let's not forget Fleet Marks are easy to get and reward 150, but you do need 1340 of them roughly.
So far every fleet mark I have donated has only given me 50 credits, not 150. You are right though in that Fleet Marks are probably the best way for a player to earn credits. They are the one thing you couldn't have stockpiled before season 6 went live and despite some dedicated grinders they always seem to be the last to fill on any project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
This is a really good comparison are you doing the other ships too? I'm not sure if I like the concept of the Vor'Cha refit.
I plan on doing reviews of all the Fleet ships; things are just rather time consuming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wienerbutt View Post
I think you are vastly underestimating the value of certain stats and features on ships.

For example, the Scourge Retrofit. You are benching it against a raptor when it isn't meant to be a raptor. Its features are extremely similar to the jem bug ship and its boff layout is how most pvpers would setup the bug as well. If anything you should be comparing it to the fleet escort, or the bug ship.
I don't have the stats of the Jem Bug in front of me but I'll take your word for it. However I am not going to benchmark it against a Fleet Escort (actually they are called Blockade Escorts now) because a KDF player will never have the chance to buy one. And since the bug costs over 100 million EC I think comparing it to that puts a free ship against a ship that takes a long long long time to grind out the resources for. A raptor is the only free ship that has similar performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wienerbutt View Post
Considering the boff layout, turn rate, console slots, I'd say this is an excellent ship for its price. Its only real drawback in my opinion would be its lower shield modifier. Saying the lack of a tac ensign slot is a drawback is rather silly as well, since the slot is generally considered a waste as it is. The extra engi ensign slot is vastly superior.
I was actually tempted to make this one a 2.5 stars instead of 2 because I feel it is borderline. It is certainly the best of the free KDF ships available at tier 1, and pretty soon I expect we'll see a bunch of them flying around.

And I am not saying that losing a tac ensign slot in favour of an eng ensign slot is a drawback. I am simply listing all the things you win and all the things you lose; I agree that I'd much rather have the engi slot. However, having it means that you have to sacrifice a number of things, and I think the engi slot ends up simply compensating for the fact that it's a flimsier ship. And I don't think the turn rate boost is enough to balance it out.

The closest ship in design to this one, though, is really the Guramba, which has the same power levels, console slots, and boff slots, and I did a comparison of those too. The Scourge is weaker than the Guramba, but not by a terrible amount, so in that light the Scourge Retrofit is a decent buy, though 1:1 against a Guramba I'd be quite surprised if the Scourge won.

Peet
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
# 6
07-23-2012, 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanis161 View Post
I've got a KDF toon, and so I'm waiting for the "reviews" on the fleet cruisers and the fleet vo'quv.

However, can someone do this for fed fleet ships, too?
I plan to but I will post that in the federation section.

Edit: First Tier Fed ships are done:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...81#post4932681

Peet

Last edited by smi3th; 07-24-2012 at 12:38 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
# 7
07-25-2012, 03:06 PM
Tier 2 is up and was added to the original post.

Also, Wienerbutt, I decided to upgrade the rating of the Scourge Retrofit to ***. You talked me into it. I still think that if you want that kind of ship you should get a Guramba and since a discount is available for buying the original ship you can always grab the console off the original and get the paid version of this ship. But if you are insistent on not paying any Zen then yes, this is not a bad buy. On the other hand, if you are not generating fleet credits that fast you might want to hold out for the Hoh'Sus BOP Retrofit that comes out at Tier 4.

Peet
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12
# 8
07-25-2012, 04:52 PM
Excellent so far. I was planning on posting something similar, but you did it much better than I would have.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 28
# 9
07-26-2012, 05:30 PM
I like the concept of this topic, but I tend to disagree at some points:

1) the pro/con part
I would concentrate on relevant information: "+5 Weapon power/-5 engine power" simply equals out (its just a slight change in your power setup) and other information simply sound to drastical: "-33% Crew size"...sounds dramatic, but a value that changes almost nothing. (A Bortasque has 3600 crew, a B'Rel 30 but if you compare them you would not write "-12000% Crew", would you? )


2) Ratings
2.1) IMO the Fleet-Qin should get 4 Stars, simply because it is the better ship if you compare it to the fleet scourge: both ships are almost identical in most statistics only with another focus(10 consoles, boff ranks etc.), but while the Qin has almost 5000 hit points more and a cloaking device and a (slight) advantage in interia, the scourge only offers a slightly better turnrate.

Also it is a kind of "logical improvement": if you fly a Qin and love it, the Fleet Qin is a "must buy": it is simpy better in all aspects, so there is no reason not to buy it (except for the price of course!).

On the other hand if you fly a Garumba and love it, there is little to no reason to give it up for a Fleet Scourge: sure you get the additional console, but you lose the javelin for it.

In short:
FleetQin > Qin
FleetScourge = Garumba
FleetQin > FleetScourge


2.2) The Regular Scourge retrofit is only 2 or even only 1 Star for me: there is simply no reason to buy it if you already have a Qin (Dont forget: a free ship!) or Garumba.

2.3) I don't see the Fleet somraw in such a bad shape.
For me it is another concept for a raptor. The core sentence is this:
Quote:
Would you give up an engineering console and a quarter of your shields to get a science console and replace your tac ensign with an eng ensign?
In fact the additional Sci console almost even out the worse shield: put in a rare Mk.XI Field Generator and the diference is only a more or less marginal -4%.

The change in the ensign slot from tac to eng does not sound much but IMO it is: the tac eng is almost wastet. Most Qin builds I know use THY1 and a single torpedo just to give it any meaning. But you don't really need it, as you can exchange the torp easily for a non-buffable variant like HargPeng.

the eng.ensign on the other hand comes in very handy: on the regular Qin you don'T have more hull heal than hazzard emitters, as you need your 2 engieer skills for EPTS1 and EPTS2 for permanent shield increase.
Now I can use 2x EPTS1 and e.g. EngineeringTeam2

->On paper the Fleet somraw looks weak, but IMO it has the potential for the "more resilent Qin" an deserves ***
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 748
# 10
07-26-2012, 08:44 PM
Tor'Kaht = Vor'Cha old cstore skin. (pretty sure that was the only KDF cstore skin only unlock ever)
Also uses/unlocks Vor'Kang skin which is also purchasable in cstore. So a plus.

Shame owning the cstore Vor'Kang doesn't give discount for Fleet Tor'Kaht. So that's a con.
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Devs, need Fleet Orion Marauder and Dacoit please! :-)

Using - Bulwark, Voth Fighter. Favs - Fleet Corsair, Mogh, Bastion, Nicor, JHEC, JAS
Some others - Orion Marauder, Chel Grett, Guramba, Risian Corvette, Risian Cruiser
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