Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 749
# 1 Review: Tholian Orb Weaver
07-24-2012, 12:13 AM
So, just got one of these and took it for a go, gotta say I was impressed with it, but there were a few issues that I think need to be addressed.

Issue I: Ship Identity.
This vessel was advertised as a Science Vessel due to the Sensor Scan passive and the subsystem targeting, but the NPC ship is a cruiser. Due to this, Cryptic decided to mash them together and create a hybrid "sci-tank", that has science passives and bad turn.

Possible Solution:
Cut out the cruiser from the equation and increase its turn rate to 12.

Issue II: Thermeonic Torpedo
Now I will say this. This is a GREAT torpedo. But it lacks in a major area. DAMAGE. The base damage is around 2100, which is equivalent to a MK XI Transphasic torpedo, without any shield penetration. Without a damage buff, it is only really good in PvP.

Solution:
Increase the damage to something closer to a Photon Torpedo.

Issue III: Tholian Web Console
This console is GREAT. But since it is a barrier with some proton damage, it is nearly useless in many situations since the web nodes can be shot and destroyed. Also, if you deploy it against something very large like a Cube, it simply explodes.

Solution:
Add a proton turret to each web node that does a small amount of damage to increase its utility in situations, and make it to where if you use it against a large target, have the nodes remain and fire the aforementioned proton turrets.

Everything else about this ship is GREAT, and I feel that with these changes, the ship will be Greater.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 233
# 2
07-24-2012, 09:59 AM
The ship already cuts into the worth of Fed science ships, and bumping the turn rate up to 12 only makes this problem worse. How exactly would it be balanced against the Intrepid, or the Recon SV? It already makes the Nebula just about worthless as a multi-role sci/cruiser hybrid, so what you're saying is that you want the Nova with even more CC at the cost of absolutely nothing.

As for the torpedo, it's not supposed to be balanced against a transphasic or photon. It's a debuffing torpedo, which means you compare it to a chroniton torp...and in that regard, I'd say it's much better than the chroniton. Instead of being easily resisted, it can drain a good amount of power from two different systems.

Web: no. Just, no. Every CC move in the game can easily be countered by multiple skills or is just generally worthless. So what you want is something better than a grav well, damage-wise.

It seems to me that you want to take an already OP ship and boost its special torp and console to a degree that there is no reason to fly any other ship than it. I'm sorry, but these suggestions are ridiculous, as the craft doesn't need any boosts; if anything deserves a boost in this game, it's the science side.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 399
# 3
07-24-2012, 11:55 AM
My wife flies it with a sci career, and this ship is a beast.
She's looking forward to get a Recluse to enhance the gameplay of those tholian ships even more.

Play it like a Sci, and you don't miss anything, and your teammates will thank you.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 797
# 4
07-24-2012, 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by burstdragon323 View Post
So, just got one of these and took it for a go, gotta say I was impressed with it, but there were a few issues that I think need to be addressed.

Issue I: Ship Identity.
This vessel was advertised as a Science Vessel due to the Sensor Scan passive and the subsystem targeting, but the NPC ship is a cruiser. Due to this, Cryptic decided to mash them together and create a hybrid "sci-tank", that has science passives and bad turn.

Possible Solution:
Cut out the cruiser from the equation and increase its turn rate to 12.

Issue II: Thermeonic Torpedo
Now I will say this. This is a GREAT torpedo. But it lacks in a major area. DAMAGE. The base damage is around 2100, which is equivalent to a MK XI Transphasic torpedo, without any shield penetration. Without a damage buff, it is only really good in PvP.

Solution:
Increase the damage to something closer to a Photon Torpedo.

Issue III: Tholian Web Console
This console is GREAT. But since it is a barrier with some proton damage, it is nearly useless in many situations since the web nodes can be shot and destroyed. Also, if you deploy it against something very large like a Cube, it simply explodes.

Solution:
Add a proton turret to each web node that does a small amount of damage to increase its utility in situations, and make it to where if you use it against a large target, have the nodes remain and fire the aforementioned proton turrets.

Everything else about this ship is GREAT, and I feel that with these changes, the ship will be Greater.
the nebula and tholian ship are basically the same ship. the only difference is the tholian has more crew. and that nifty web console.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 42
# 5 ill be honest
07-25-2012, 07:37 AM
I have this ship on my tac....why you may ask?...because tac powers buff sci abilities a LOT better than sci abilities do.

Ook i will explain in detail my reasoning, my opinion of this ship is it is horrible.....not because it by itself is bad...but because sci powers are useless and boring....i wasted 6 respec tokens trying to make this ships work, i went from a damager torp boat with max particle acc, and every sci slot filled with mk xi purple particle gen consoles...results even with tac powers raging.....useless.....couldnt even kill a frigate in a timely fashion

For starters grav well's dps is absolutely horrible even fully buffed....then i switched(without respecing) into a feedback pulse machines....again useless...all it takes is a he1 running in the background and you are immune to any fbp....then i respecced (5$), tried a beam boat, vm build....yea vm is nice but if you can't kill the person in the 15 alotted seconds...it is useless........so i mixed it to psw and vm..again useless...unless psw crits it does laughable damage and while the disable is nice, unless you have the ability to capitalize on it, it is useless.


Then another respec, i switched my setup to max flow cap and all mk xi flow caps in my sci slots and the doffs to spawn tykens twins, i ran 2 instances of tykens rift and 2 instance of disable shield systems and made it a torp boat...the concept was hit them with tykens rift then disable shields and torp them to death......again...epic fail...i lowered shields MAYBE 1 time out of 20 in stfs and pretty much never in pvp...again all these test are with 125 aux and all offense tac buffs running....all sensor abilities at best are only annoying as a matter of fact the only good sci powers are the defensive 1's.....and ya...they will keep you alive long enough to face plant from boredom.

I put my tac in a defiant and she can kill in literally 3 seconds.....i use my engi and his marauder is certainly not lacking in any way....he can kill in a timely fashion NP.....however sci in sci ships is absolutely boring..and pointless...ALL offensive sci abilities suck horrifically as a matter of fact the only true option for a sci officer is a tac ship and just subnuke everyone to death.

These are my reasons and im sure there will be plenty of trolls to argue this, but i ran these tests in the company of others and my results are solid....and also, while the web is a pretty graphic it is useless, all they have to do is shoot it and it done...its erect for 20 seconds b4 it collapses and no ability can keep them in it that long....FAIL...just my honest and true opinion and results

Last edited by darkemisary420; 07-25-2012 at 07:44 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 92
# 6
07-25-2012, 08:05 AM
Quote:
but because sci powers are useless and boring
Really? Have you been paying attention? I mean, really?

My first character was Tac in Tac Cruisers.
My second character was Sci in Sci vessels, until finally a Sci Ody

Sci ROCKS. My "useless and boring" sci powers mean that my Sci Ody is always the last ship left alive, providing healing to myself and others, slowing and debuffing enemies, while buffing friends... while still doing just about the same damage as the Tac versions of the same ship.

Personally, I think the best combo is a Sci captain in a Tac ship, until you get to endgame (but that's just my opinion).
Fleet Admiral T'Kehl - M.A.C.O. Vanguard Force (Sci Odyssey - USS Archimedes)
Fleet Admiral Shivers - M.A.C.O. Vanguard Force (Tac Escort - USS Abraham Lincoln)


The Federation's most successful counter to the Borg and Iconian threats.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 78
# 7
07-25-2012, 08:16 AM
It had me right up to the point where I found out it can't fit dual cannons... "sigh"
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 8
07-25-2012, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by r37 View Post
It had me right up to the point where I found out it can't fit dual cannons... "sigh"
Same...


Quote:
Originally Posted by darkemisary420 View Post
however sci in sci ships is absolutely boring..and pointless...ALL offensive sci abilities suck horrifically as a matter of fact the only true option for a sci officer is a tac ship and just subnuke everyone to death.
I would love some of whatever the heck you're smoking.

Power Drain builds are basically dead in PVP, and Shield Drain builds aren't particularly effective in endgame PVE, but that doesn't mean SciShips are weak. Sci Powers are NOT a replacement for good DPS + high weapons power, but a supplement to it.

That said, Gravwell is perfectly fine as an additional damage source (assuming you're talking about using GW3 at reasonably high Aux) you just need to stop ships from moving first so that they sit dead in the centre (not needed for killing static targets like structures, or for using GW as a CC ability or Torpedo Spread anchor). Ditto for PSW3, except that you don't need the high Aux, just Particle Gen Skill + Equipment.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 233
# 9
07-25-2012, 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkemisary420 View Post
rant
Oh, look. Another tac captain who doesn't understand how science works. let's all point and laugh at him.


Seriously though, we all know science dps sucks. When you tac's got a simplified tree and buffs to escorts, science vessels/powers only got nerfs. So yes, your defiant will be unopposed by a tractor beam or gravity well due to several skills/items that render CC useless in PvP. And yes, only tacs can actually utilize several science skills to deal damage whilst still keeping a sufficient amount of CC (at least for PvE). But just because science is borked to high hell whilst tac/escorts get to run amok doesn't mean that this ship isn't horrendously imbalanced.

It took the Nebula's good tanking/CC and took some steroids; now it has even better tanking, CC, dps, and console utility. There is literally nothing that the Nebula can do that the Weaver can't do better (except, perhaps, be a jack-of-all-trades, but even that is suspect). If you want to complain about science vessels/powers being horrible, get in line, but don't infer that this ship is terrible just because you don't know how to fly a science vessel.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 42
# 10 let me start off by saying
07-25-2012, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mehen View Post
Oh, look. Another tac captain who doesn't understand how science works. let's all point and laugh at him.


Seriously though, we all know science dps sucks. When you tac's got a simplified tree and buffs to escorts, science vessels/powers only got nerfs. So yes, your defiant will be unopposed by a tractor beam or gravity well due to several skills/items that render CC useless in PvP. And yes, only tacs can actually utilize several science skills to deal damage whilst still keeping a sufficient amount of CC (at least for PvE). But just because science is borked to high hell whilst tac/escorts get to run amok doesn't mean that this ship isn't horrendously imbalanced.

It took the Nebula's good tanking/CC and took some steroids; now it has even better tanking, CC, dps, and console utility. There is literally nothing that the Nebula can do that the Weaver can't do better (except, perhaps, be a jack-of-all-trades, but even that is suspect). If you want to complain about science vessels/powers being horrible, get in line, but don't infer that this ship is terrible just because you don't know how to fly a science vessel.

let me start off by saying, you know nothing about me....you are 100000 miles past clueless and enroute to embarassing yourself....truth is i flew nothing BUT sci vessels most of my STO experiance...do i know how to fly them...yes i do....do i think they suck...yes i do....fact is i tried my hardest to like sci, as i am a voyager fan....but it is a useless ship class...it shouldn't even be in the game...it does not have the ability to kill the others do and it is boring to fly because of such reasons (to me)....if your idea of fun is running around healing ppl whilts having tickles wars with your enemy...you have the right class of ship...if you want to kill....pls pick ANYTHING else...i remember when sci was useful, now its just crap...the hordes of crybabies have nerfs it into boringness.....if i can kill in 3 seconds on my escort sci should have abilities that can do the same or similar....every time i fly sci i literally pass out at the keyboard....im not exaggerating in the slightest...aside from pretty graphics it is useless, the only sci based ships worth flying are the carriers because they have fighter to supplement dps....i fought a sci in my engi the other day 1 v 1...1 who swore he could toast anyone in his luna...i load up my engi on his marauder and let him have it....he throughly annoyed me for a half hour b4 i ultimately killed him..... and he never once dropped a shield or even had my hull below 98%.....TRANSLATION....U.S.E.L.E.S.S.
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