Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 425
# 31
07-24-2012, 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconians View Post
False equivelancy. While I'm sure they'd make more money from Fleet Modules by offering an Excalibur/Vesper/Exeter, the backlash from the playerbase probably would not be worth it. Then again, maybe it would. Keep in mind that the lock boxes were also regulated by CBS Studios' wishes that the ultra-rare ships remain ultra-rare and not commonly accessible by any player. If they tell Cryptic to jump, Cryptic's only response is to ask 'How high?'. If CBS Studios doesn't want a T5 Connie in the game, a T5 Connie doesn't get put in the game. If they want lock boxes in the game, Cryptic puts lock boxes in the game. There doesn't need to be any logic involved -- they own the license, they set the rules however rational or irrational they may be.
CBS isn't the reason for the lockboxes, PWE is. CBS is a convenient excuse, and nothing more. CBS didn't want some ships available to just anyone, true, but PWE needed some reason for people to want to buy the keys for the lockboxes and told CBS they could all win if CBS allowed those ships to only be available via lockboxes (CBS wins because not everyone can get the ships, PWE wins because they get their cash grab lockboxes). The problem I have with CBS is that it is obvious they don't care what Cryptic/PWE are doing to the franchise. I for one will be very wary of any Star Trek games that come out in the future. Unfortunately I'm a lifer here so I won't just get up and quit, but I guarantee I won't spend another cent on this game as long as this BS continues.
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,687
# 32
07-24-2012, 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconians View Post
Keep in mind that the lock boxes were also regulated by CBS Studios' wishes that the ultra-rare ships remain ultra-rare and not commonly accessible by any player. If they tell Cryptic to jump, Cryptic's only response is to ask 'How high?'. If CBS Studios doesn't want a T5 Connie in the game, a T5 Connie doesn't get put in the game. If they want lock boxes in the game, Cryptic puts lock boxes in the game. There doesn't need to be any logic involved -- they own the license, they set the rules however rational or irrational they may be.
One minor point here... CBS might be able to tell Cryptic "no lockboxes" if they had been so inclined, but they can't tell them "put lockboxes in there" since that's not part of the IP that CBS owns and licenses.

CBS can veto stuff related to the property, but they can't dictate how PWE runs their business.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,014
# 33
07-24-2012, 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchngc View Post
CBS isn't the reason for the lockboxes, PWE is. CBS is a convenient excuse, and nothing more. CBS didn't want some ships available to just anyone, true, but PWE needed some reason for people to want to buy the keys for the lockboxes and told CBS they could all win if CBS allowed those ships to only be available via lockboxes (CBS wins because not everyone can get the ships, PWE wins because they get their cash grab lockboxes). The problem I have with CBS is that it is obvious they don't care what Cryptic/PWE are doing to the franchise. I for one will be very wary of any Star Trek games that come out in the future. Unfortunately I'm a lifer here so I won't just get up and quit, but I guarantee I won't spend another cent on this game as long as this BS continues.
I think I need to clarify my statement, because it was a little muddled. You're right. PWE is behind the lock boxes as a whole -- but the jackpot is the ultra-rare ship. That in of itself is where CBS really comes into play. While I don't condone gambling, and consider it shady and even unethical -- I can't ignore the facts that gambling has been a guaranteed way to make a lot of money with very little risk involved since the dawn of human civilization. While the financial rewards are reaped -- the social costs are as well, and we have seen to no small extent just what those social costs entail in STO. Obviously PWE is okay with paying the social cost by having a game of chance in their titles, even if I don't agree with it.

I also can't ignore the fact that with STO being moved to an f2p setting, there are a lot of players who contribute nothing financially to Cryptic. This is okay with me -- free is awesome, and free stuff is always welcome. But they do need to make their money. While I don't like gambling, the lock box games are bringing income on a level Cryptic never had before.

You're a lifer, you've paid your dues. And I honestly don't blame you one bit for refusing to spend another cent on this game, and I can see your reasoning behind it.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,014
# 34
07-24-2012, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
One minor point here... CBS might be able to tell Cryptic "no lockboxes" if they had been so inclined, but they can't tell them "put lockboxes in there" since that's not part of the IP that CBS owns and licenses.

CBS can veto stuff related to the property, but they can't dictate how PWE runs their business.
You're right. I'm clarifying my statement that CBS Studios is not behind the lock boxes as a whole, just the ultra-rare ships involved in them.
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 95
# 35
07-24-2012, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconians View Post
While I do think the other variants would be great (I do like the Excalibur), it'd allow a T5 Connie into the game. Cryptic Studios could just remove the Connie variant -- but I think that'd just anger players even more since a lot of players do want the T5 Connie, and a Fleet Cruiser retrofit would just make things worse if it hit the game without a Connie skin.
That is some of the worst logic I've ever heard. There are currently 2 groups who are angry about this issue: those who actually want a T5 connie and those who simply want a T5 excalibur. Adding the excalibur to the fleet store would actually remove one of those 2 groups, and the people who want the T5 connie are already mad anyway. People who dont care about a T5 connie arent going to get mad about a T5 excalibur, so its not like there are going to be any new people getting mad who arent already mad. Again, absolutely terrible logic. In fact, its the kind of nonsense I'd expect the guy in your signature to come up with.

Last edited by j4ck5p4rr0w; 07-24-2012 at 03:37 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,014
# 36
07-24-2012, 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by j4ck5p4rr0w View Post
That is some of the worst logic I've ever heard. There are currently 2 groups who are angry about this issue: those who actually want a T5 connie and those who simply want a T5 excalibur. Adding the excalibur to the fleet store would actually remove one of those 2 groups, and the people who want the T5 connie are already mad anyway. People who dont care about a T5 connie arent going to get mad about a T5 excalibur, so its not like there are going to be any new people getting mad who arent already mad. Again, absolutely terrible logic. In fact, its the kind of nonsense I'd expect the guy in your signature to come up with.
Controlled risk. One of these groups are signifigantly larger than the other. There's a difference between being mad and being punched in the face when you're already mad to begin with. There is no upper-limit to dissatisfaction. You can be dissatisfied, extremely dissatisfied, and any numerous shades of unhappy.

If the people wanting a T5 Connie are already mad, then offering a Fleet Cruiser Retrofit in the store minus a Connie skin would be punching them in the face when they're already angry.

They could put a T5 Excalibur in the store and it would satisfy that group, and I would be a part of that group. But I also believe in 'majority rules', for better or for worse. And I don't think Cryptic wants to anger the people wanting a T5 Connie any more than they are already. It's not like they go out of their way to tick them off on purpose. Maybe they feel it's better to not have it at all? I don't know. I don't work for Cryptic. I don't know what logic (if any) went into the decision.

But I do know one of these groups are much, much, much larger than the other... and I wouldn't want to anger them some more just so I could satisfy the smaller minority group.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 734
# 37
07-24-2012, 03:44 PM
As reported earlier, there is a bug that won't let you do *any* customization of the fleet ship unless you bought the lower tier version (and by any customization I mean change windows, colors, bridge, not the ship skin).
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 95
# 38
07-24-2012, 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconians View Post
But I do know one of these groups are much, much, much larger than the other...
You dont know jack. What you guess and what is actually true are two completely different things. And according to Cryptic, the forums dont actually represent the playerbase. So just because you may see a certain issue discussed more than another here on the forums does not mean it actually represents a larger group of the playerbase. We've seen plenty of KDF discussion since launch, yet they are still the minority faction by far. This is just more of your terrible logic.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,014
# 39
07-24-2012, 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by j4ck5p4rr0w View Post
You dont know jack. What you guess and what is actually true are two completely different things. And according to Cryptic, the forums dont represent the playerbase. So just because you may see a certain issue discussed more than another on the forums does not mean it actually represents a larger group of the playerbase.
The Constitution is an iconic ship of Star Trek. It was the original Enterprise.

The Excalibur/Vesper/Exeter is not. They're Cryptic-made designs that exist solely in the game.

One of these things is beloved, and more recognizable than the other. If you really, honestly, truly believe that the number of people loving Cryptic-designed ships outmatches (or is even ambiguous) over the iconic ship of James T. Kirk (even if it was the refit from the TOS movies), then I really don't know what to say to you.

I won't say you're wrong, because you're right -- I don't know for a fact.
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 95
# 40
07-24-2012, 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconians View Post
The Constitution is an iconic ship of Star Trek. It was the original Enterprise.

The Excalibur/Vesper/Exeter is not. They're Cryptic-made designs that exist solely in the game.

One of these things is beloved, and more recognizable than the other. If you really, honestly, truly believe that the number of people loving Cryptic-designed ships outmatches (or is even ambiguous) over the iconic ship of James T. Kirk (even if it was the refit from the TOS movies), then I really don't know what to say to you.

I won't say you're wrong, because you're right -- I don't know for a fact.
We're not talking about people who simply like the connie, we're talking about people who want a T5 connie. If you have actually read the T5 connie threads that have popped up in the past you would know that there are plenty of people who actually like the connie who DONT want to see a T5 version of it. Even more terrible logic.
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