Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8
# 1 How to build a tank!
07-25-2012, 06:29 PM
This guide has been deleted by the OP for people ruining her interest, trust, or wish to help Forum dwellers.

If you want my help, come ask me, I'm done putting my nice attempt out there only to get a "you're doing it wrong" sign slapped in the face.

I know what I'm doing, and you should all be ashamed of just how rudely you marched inhere and tore it to pieces before I even finished it.
Proud Leader of the Sensual Adversaries and Co-Leader of Knights That Say Ni
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Last edited by vixification; 07-28-2012 at 03:54 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 146
# 2
07-26-2012, 10:19 AM
Unless you're doing STFs or whatever with pretty terrible players, an eng captain absolutely needs threat control to be in any way effective as a tank.

You're only a tank if you are the one taking all/most of the damage (I cant tell you how many numbskulls Ive run into who say they are awesome tanks and never die, but also never have anything attacking them because they put out as much aggro as a chump in an EV suit with a stun pistol). And if there is a decent escort around, there is no chance of an eng in a cruiser (even the bortasqu') holding threat off of them.

And, even then, if you run into someone with Attack Pattern Omega 3 and a decent spike build, even an engineer in a cruiser with threat control maxed will not be holding threat off of 'em anyway (for example, one of my kdf tacs can do upwards of 22-25k dps on the carrier in CSE, depending on the team make up, good luck holding aggro off that). Especially if you run into a tac escort captain who did the Threat control 3 / Hull Armour 6 for the higher resistance.

Basically, cruisers need innate threat control (maybe even go so far as giving escorts an innate minus to threat, like -10 or so).
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 3
07-26-2012, 12:42 PM
drasketo is absolutely right. It's not just about the survivability of the tank, it's about making sure that the enemy is targeting you and you alone. Without threat control, an Eng will never be able to pull aggro off a decent escort. And if that escort flyer has threat control? Yea, all of your heals will be going to him because he's now the tank of the group.

There are other things that help with this as well, FAW, DEM, max weapon power (Since aggro in this game is all equal to DPS=Aggro, Threat control just ups the amount of threat per damage that you do) and Attack Pattern Beta. These help, but they're not fool proof.

This is why I'm such an advocate of a Taunt Button, which tanks desperately need.

[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
# 4
07-26-2012, 10:09 PM
Agree. See my builds in my sig for some pointers but threat control needs to be specced into for tanks.

I used to run without it and got bored shooting borg whilst all the escorts around me popped. Sure I was the last one to go down but thats after everyone else went before me. As a tank that's not cool for team play.

Once I discovered threat control I came into my element as a tanker. The game changed as _I_ was controlling the damage being dealt to my team. Now, If I'm not using a heal/buff/resist power I feel like I'm doing nothing. If you're not taking heat, your not tanking.

I specced 6 into threat, but the heat can get a bit much when tanking 6 spheres that emerge from the gate on ISE. They hunt you down. For me 3 points into it is a good balance of getting and holding aggro whilst engaging them, then if I need to cut loose to lick my wounds for 30 seconds I can without too much issue.

You also get a bit more passive damage resist from the skill to help with the extra heat.



Also speccing 9 into any subsystem performance skill (wepons, aux, engine, shield) to boost power level is a waste. This final 3 points get you all of ONE point more power. The first three get you 3 points of power each, 4-6 points spent gets you an extra 1 power each point spent, the final three only give 1/3 of a point of power. So you're better off speccing 6 in each and using the saved points elsewhere.

Like 9 in armour reinforcements to resist massive boss torp kinetic damage.

Driver coil points are a waste unless you Doff a lot.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 146
# 5
07-26-2012, 11:23 PM
Well, the reason I posted what I did is because under your Eng section, you say to not even point any points in Threat. I dunno if thats just an old post you had saved and copy/pasted or what.

.....

FAIL. I saw an Orion in the avatar and I thought you (eradicator) were the OP.

So yeah.

As for skill points. I agree, any more than 6/9 into the direct subsystem power skills is a waste. But, Id also say the same thing about Hull armour and Armour Reinforcements. Once you get up past 6 you wont be seeing much more than one or two percent more resistance extra for those skill points. AND, ALL resistance, even the stuff gained by skills is subject to the diminishing returns that resistances suffer. Depending on the defensive cooldowns you're rotating, youll be running regularly with resistances so high that the effective extra bonus will from 9/9 Armour Reinforcements will be about nil.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 817
# 6
07-27-2012, 12:21 AM
True but there's not much else worth investing is tank wise. Having a bit more armour and plating imo is always worth it. Considering all the fire you're taking over the length of a skirmish, just 1% can mean a lot and the difference between giving your boffs time to cool down to heal again or not.

There is a sweet spot between plating and threat control, 6 in each gives a solid resist value vs any other combination of the 2, but with 6 threat being too hard to control at times I pulled the 3 points out of it and put it in plating. Slightly less resistance but far more manageable threat control.

9 in armour is for STF/fleet stuff where you get hit by big boss torps and torp spreads. Sometimes polarise hull or brace for impact is on cooldown so having lots if armour helps mitigate those big hull spike damages. Cause when they come you usually aren't at 100% hull HP anyway.

So if you're saving points on subsystem performance skills and don't spend it in armour or plating what would you spend the spare points on?
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 7
07-27-2012, 05:24 AM
My Best Tanking Character, by far, is my KDF Sci Captain.

Not because he usually holds aggro in space (he does though, unless confronted with someone else who is heavilly specced into Threat Control) but because he can cripple the enemy so that its attacks don't hurt and it takes more damage, whilst layering on a lot of DPS and being pretty survivable.

The key to this is high Energy Drain, via Plasmonic Leech, Aceton Assimilator and Tyken's Rift. An enemy with Low Weapons power only tickles your shields with Energy Weapons - and Rift also has the side effect of destroying Heavy Torpedos as they launch, which negates a lot of the non-energy weapon damage. My ship of choice is a Kar'fi, for the Commander Sci BOFF slot, perma-125 Weapons Power + the ability to use DHCs and launch two wings of fighters.

On the ground, the same Captain uses the Borg Medical Analyzer Kit to stay on his feet constantly whilst under heavy fire, plus Dampening Field to debuff Major Foes (Bosses, Elite Tac Drones, etc). Scientific Aptitute and the KHG set bonus "Adrenal Booster" allow him to shed CC, and there's always Hypos as a backup. Crouching plus the spammable Sci heals goes a long way towards Srvivability; and Aiming, "Tachyon Harmonic" and the KHG Pulsewave weapon goes a long way towards pulling Aggro.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 8
07-27-2012, 06:07 AM
I specced into Starship Power Insulators as well, simply to help against Borg shield drains. It's another small skill that's overlooked a lot of times, but the less your shields are drained, the longer they stay up.

[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 146
# 9
07-28-2012, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eradicator84 View Post
So if you're saving points on subsystem performance skills and don't spend it in armour or plating what would you spend the spare points on?
Probably easier to just do it this way:

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...=TankKeto_1187

Personally, I happen to like Driver Coil, Batteries, Power Insulators and Inertial Dampeners. I know a lot of people dont. But, for the most part, I dont give a hoot. The particular captain I use this on is an Alien as well: Accurate, Elusive, Warp Theorist and Efficient Captain (thus the Warp Core Efficiency and Potential) and I splurged and got Saurian Boffs.

For that particular set up, Ive got a purple and blue conn officer reducing the tactical team cooldown, a purple warp core engineer, and a green shield distribution and hazard systems doff.

I also have a set of Single Cannons and turrets. I drop the TT Conn officers and go with another shield dis and a Evasive. I retrain the boffs to both TT1 and then I alternate between CRF1 and CSV1 depending on which will be more useful at the time.

Sometimes, I ditch the Extend 1 and get a second copy of RSP 1. But, its not really necessary, and I hardly ever do it. The extend usually comes in more useful for when you run into those escorts you just cannot keep aggro off of until they die once.

Also, I didnt go with polarise because, especially if Im using my cannons set up, Im normally trying to get hit by the heavy plasma to make the fights go faster.

-----

I like maelwys' set up to. Ive been doing the exact same thing but with a tactical officer. Back before Power Siphon Drones were nerfed, I could tank so perfectly with that character (using the karfi as a torp boat, however) that I gave up fed tanking and respecced my main fed, an eng, to a more versatile "Do everything pretty well except Photonic Shockwave" build. Then I decided I missed the pure threat tanker and made another.

Last edited by drasketo; 07-28-2012 at 10:01 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8
# 10
07-28-2012, 03:48 PM
I've just noticed that I don't really need the Threat spec <_< I've tested both obviously, and my eng actually holds Threat well enough. I had survivability to think about.

In either case, thanks for the criticism, but I assure you that it's not needed. <3

And since I obviously am nothing in comparrison to you 'gods' who know 'exactly' what you're doing and make me look like a fumbling noob in comparrison, I think I'll just ditch what I thought was a great idea.

Thanks for completely destroying my morale about this too, I appreciate your understanding.
Proud Leader of the Sensual Adversaries and Co-Leader of Knights That Say Ni
Proud Co-Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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