Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,873
Welcome to the Foundry Roundtable, a weekly podcast dedicated to Foundry missions, mission building and other UGC issues starring Foundry authors Drogyn1701, Markhawkman and Greendragoon with special guest, Bazag.

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-- FOUNDRY NEWS ------------------------------------------------------

More Delta Rising News: Intelligence Ship Stats, Officers, and Delta Reputation

Uniform Code for Starfleet Intelligence

-- REVIEWS ----------------------------------------------------------------

Explore Delta Volanis 4 by HelixFungus

-- DISCUSSION ------------------------------------------------------------

What is the nature of Starfleet Intelligence?
Looking at some elements from Delta Rising
What does the Prime Directive actually mean?
How do you kill a Foundry characters?
Telling a story without insinuation

-- LINKS ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bazag's WIP Foundry Map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-XsWOhkIqg

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The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,171
# 2
09-17-2014, 07:07 AM
um... "Telling a story without insinuation"

don't you mean "with"?
HAIL HYDRA!

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 936
# 3
09-17-2014, 04:14 PM
What is the nature of Starfleet Intelligence?
Starfleet Intelligence, or simply "Intel" (the shorthand I took to calling them) figures prominently in my Ghosts of War hexalogy. I have depicted their role as mainly one of discreet, and sometimes covert, information gathering. Unlike, say, MI6 as depicted in the James Bond films, as a rule my interpretation of Intel doesn't do black ops or otherwise intervene directly in a situation except if it's already a crisis, and even then only with Starfleet muscle to support them. They certainly don't veer into the amoral territory of Section 31, with whom I've depicted Intel as having a sort of love/hate relationship. (That is, Intel may not care for S31's methods, but do acknowledge, however grudgingly, that they get the results they advertise.)

Another thing about my portrayal of Intel is that they're not necessarily the equivalent of a cross-section of Starfleet as a whole, but rather, they seek out and recruit officers who are specifically suited to intelligence-gathering work - such as the character code-named "Black Snow".

Last edited by paxfederatica; 09-17-2014 at 04:18 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 276
# 4
09-23-2014, 06:14 AM
Makes sense to me Paxfederatica, thanks.

The impression I've always had, from what I've read in various places that seem as "reliable" as anything else (mentions in Cryptic missions, Memory Alpha, etc.), is much the same - that Starfleet Intelligence are the Federation's regular intelligence agency/secret service, just like the UK has MI5/MI6 and GCHQ and the USA have the FBI and the CIA. (That's a point - OK, Starfleet Intelligence is at least ONE of the Federation's intelligence agencies. :-) ) They happen to be a division of Starfleet, in the same way that there are Intelligence Officers in the real-life military, hence they're Starfleet Intelligence. They do what intelligence officers do, spy out the enemy's bases, keep an eye on exactly how mutinous the Bajorans are at any time, and so on.

Section 31, on the other hand, is (or used to be) a particular, secret division of Starfleet Intelligence that specialises in "black ops", i.e. things that the Federation NEVER wants to admit it had anything to do with because they're inexcusable even by normal espionage standards and totally illegal. The Federation doesn't acknowledge that Section 31 even exists; even most of Starfleet aren't told that it really exists. Think of the various rumours about things the CIA have done - some of which they actually did do, like the MKULTRA project (look it up) and so on.

Section 31 were officially admitted to and disbanded during the DS9 era. In fact, they're clearly still around in STO, but it's not 100% certain that that's still with official approval - they could just be some part of Starfleet Intelligence acting on its own initiative. (Again, in real life it's been said that the trouble with the CIA is that they're so secret even the government don't get to hear what they're doing, so they're free to follow their own crackpot ideas.)

Good idea about the rest of Starfleet Intelligence not necessarily getting on with them. (I've heard that MI5/6 and GCHQ resent each other like nobody's business!) In my fleet's RP (Firefly Fleet), the fleet's Chief of Intelligence is practically carrying on a turf war with Section 31 - IIRC, they kidnapped his wife at some point - if 31ers get sent to him on business he threatens to throw them out of the airlock. And that seems perfectly within the range of spy stories.

Last edited by wombat140; 09-25-2014 at 07:35 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 276
# 5
09-23-2014, 07:17 AM
Just occurred to me, it does happen once in a blue moon that Section 31 end up on the side of the angels. It takes some pretty bizarre circumstances even by Star Trek standards, but it's possible. The "Spectres" episodes are an example of that. There's nothing actually immoral about the plan they come up with there, but it's still an even-the-President-must-never-know job, because
a) it's still drastically illegal (Temporal Prime Directive)
b) if everyone found out that the Federation has a time portal, the whole of history could be in danger
c) it's completely crazy.

So it's possible for Section 31 to end up doing something that's not actually wrong, so long as it's something that nobody must ever know happened. It would probably surprise them, though.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,779
# 6
09-23-2014, 11:19 AM
Section 31 is in my view , nothing short of a Domestic Terrorist Cell

Perhaps they have good intentions, but thats not really the point, they are completely rouge


These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,433
# 7
09-23-2014, 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adverbero View Post
Section 31 is in my view , nothing short of a Domestic Terrorist Cell

Perhaps they have good intentions, but thats not really the point, they are completely rouge
Well, that can't be true as the have no interest in, nor do their actions incite, terror.

@greendragoon
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,779
# 8
09-23-2014, 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreendragoon1 View Post
Well, that can't be true as the have no interest in, nor do their actions incite, terror.
"According to the FBI, terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

Any segment thereof includes Starfleet Officers who are intimmidated or coerced into working for Section 31, keeping in mind Bashir was accepted into Section 31 without submitting a formal application and as Reed found out, the recruitment policy doesn't permit you to leave


These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......

Last edited by adverbero; 09-23-2014 at 11:53 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,171
# 9
09-23-2014, 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat140 View Post
Just occurred to me, it does happen once in a blue moon that Section 31 end up on the side of the angels. It takes some pretty bizarre circumstances even by Star Trek standards, but it's possible. The "Spectres" episodes are an example of that. There's nothing actually immoral about the plan they come up with there, but it's still an even-the-President-must-never-know job, because
a) it's still drastically illegal (Temporal Prime Directive)
b) if everyone found out that the Federation has a time portal, the whole of history could be in danger
c) it's completely crazy.

So it's possible for Section 31 to end up doing something that's not actually wrong, so long as it's something that nobody must ever know happened. It would probably surprise them, though.
Oddly enough I actually wrote a mission that was a sort of a follow up to that. My story was that B'Vat had a second plan in motion at the same time and you have to go back in time again to stop that one too.

also, if the Temporal Prime directive is the same as the regular one, then altering the past to fix what someone else did is fine.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.

Last edited by markhawkman; 09-23-2014 at 12:11 PM.
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