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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 961
I know that mixing weapon energy types ("Rainbow boating" etc.) results in a penalty to weapon power, but does mixing weapon TYPES, like Dual Beam Banks with Beam Arrays or Dual Cannons with Dual Heavy Cannons or Photons with Quantums, incur the same penalty?

Also, I've never flown cruisers with any degree of seriousness (been with the zippier SVs until I switched to an Escort Carrier last week), but now that I have a spiffy new Mirror Assault Cruiser (which I'm told is basically a Star Cruiser) I'd like to try it out on some (normal) STFs. Can someone lend an Engi captain some advice?

This is the junk I've got on it now, mostly cannibalized from earlier craft until I scrape together cash and/or drops for better stof

FORE: 2x Phaser Beam Arrays, 1x Quantum Torps, 1x Phaser Dual Beam Bank
AFT: 1x Quantum Torps (replaced with Tractor mines for certain scenarios), 3x Phaser Beam Arrays

Shields/Deflector/Engine: I currently mount the full Aegis Mk XI set, but I also have the Borg set, Jem'Hadar Set (for my polaron HEC), Breen set, and the MACO shield.

Consoles:
ENG: 2x Neutronium Alloy, 1x EPS Flow Regulator, 1x Plasma Distribution Manifold
SCI: Biofunction Monitor, Shield Emitter Amplifier (to be replaced with Generators once I can afford them)
TAC: 1x Zero-Point Quantum Chamber, 1x Phaser Relay, 1x Directed Energy Distribution Manifold

Bridge Layout (not in particular order):
Lt Tac: Beam Fire At Will, Attack Pattern Beta
En Tac: Torpedo Spread
Cdr Eng: Emer. Power to Shields, Engineering Team, Extend Shields, Reverse Shield Polarity (I never use this though, might change for something else)
Lt Cdr Eng: Emer. Power to Weapons, Aux Power to Structural Integrity Field, Eject Warp Plasma
Lt Sci: Tractor Beam, Polarize Hull

As this will be basically the first time I've flown a cruiser besides the event for getting the Odyssey back in the day, I've no idea how they work. All my STFs (so far just Infected and Cure Space on normal) have been flown in an Escort Carrier, so my role was fairly simple at the time. As such I welcome any advice on build, play tips, etc.!

Thanks!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 2
07-30-2012, 01:58 AM
Mixing weapon types can work if you have the resources at your disposal, as well as a clear, well-honed game plan in mind. If you're putting thought into what to use and why, as well as whether or not your weapons have synergy (both with each other and with your powers/ship), you're halfway there.

The problem with trying to get creative on the Mirror Assault is that (IIRC) it has a very limited Tactical palette. You have a Lt. and an Ens., and bear in mind that you really need to take at least one copy of Tactical Team, preferably two (it's just far too useful/life-saving to go without). You're also crippled by an extremely sluggish turn rate; this makes bringing narrow arcs to bear difficult at best.

Do you PvP a lot, or are you just looking to build a ship that'll blitz through PvE stuff?
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 25
# 3
07-30-2012, 02:02 AM
Beams and cannons of the same damage type get the bonuses from consoles. Provided you use the console that boosts energy type (in your case phaser relays) The only "penalty" if you can call it that is that if you use a beam boff skill it wont affect your cannons. Torpedoes wont get the bonus either way, unless you use torpedo damage consoles, then your energy weapons dont get a bonus.

The energy distribution manifold should be swapped out for another phaser relay either way. It has a higher bonus.

Keep in mind that if you mount a dual beam up front, it wont come into play when broadsiding. So youll have to face your target, at which point your rear weapons wont factor in.

Personally, I would not run those two science abilities in an stf. Youll get far more mileage out of Hazard emitters 1 and Transfer shield strength 2. The only time I can think of a tractor beam as being useful is against probes in KA or Birds in Cure. But you tractor the one probe/Bird and shoot it as the other drives happily by you en route to the gate/Kang...

Also, I might drop torp spread for Tactical team 1. It can be a lifesaver for a slowboat.

If you run 2 copies of Emergency to Weapons and Emergency to Shields each you can have them both active at all times. The extra weapon power affords you the opportunity to drop the aft torpedo for another phaser beam. Lets face it, there are few to no times where you should be facing directly away from your target in an STF, and in none of those times will a torpedo be of any help.

Again, just suggestions, and in normal STFs it probably doesnt matter much. Fun is what matters, so do whats fun for you. But in Elite STFs when a cruiser warps in and isnt fitted right the whole team groans.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 658
# 4
07-30-2012, 02:22 AM
DISCLAIMER:

Yes, I know OP's boff powers need to be optimized for survivability, but I'm not going to tell him to use 8 beam arrays without first allowing him to understand the functionality of the ship as a weapon system in the first place.

I would prefer to encourage anyone sharing build ideas to go ahead and try their ideas - in this case, the MUAC is a very capable ship, can be made very fast with a turnrate of 18+ with no RCS accelerator consoles, and has a lot of room to grow from the loadout posted above.

A bit of encouragement to start with : -

I like the use of Attack Pattern Beta as it's a general firepower buff. If you have a variety of weapons, APB gives you a decent boost for them all.

I run an extremely deadly 'killer whale' for elite STFs and the lack of tactical powers doesn't matter if you can spam them with Auxiliary to Battery and 3 very rare technicians. You can do the same, but for now, since Very Rare technicians are very expensive or require grinding Colony chain doff missions, stick with what you have and grow the ship slowly but surely.

Here's how a Technician Cruiser operates on the offensive: -

Activate CRF / BFAW
Pop Aux2Batt immediately
Countdown commences, weapons rapid fire for 10 seconds
By the end of CRF / BFAW salvo the remaining recharge time is only 9 seconds.

You can do a fair bit of mayhem in cruisers (even if its the standard 2 tac power whale) by simply spamming that one offensive power and Tac Team 1 'forever', and applying correct buffs.

As for mixed weapons, yes, go for it, don't be in a stigma that every ship type must be 'forum approved'. There are lots of crazy builds I've done with all sorts of weapons on them yet they are not only the tankiest but the most effective damage dealers and riot controllers in town. Seriously, if you look at those builds the weapons seemingly are completely random, but they work very well thanks to synergy and a sound battle plan.

Some say that cruisers should use beam arrays only. Because they turn too slow to use DBBs. Hello? My DBB has been part of my PvP Tactical Odyssey build since I got the ship. There's something called prepositioning and thinking ahead to make use of that DBB + BO3 + APB + sensor scan = giant damage.

All it takes is an idea and a few ESTFs and PvPs to evaluate them on

Lastly if you really want 3 offensive powers you can do so and still tank decently well. All it takes is speed and extreme speed to eliminate the need for the Tactical Team. You can tank by spamming Science Team as well if your ship is fast enough.

The good news is the Mirror Assault can get close to 20 turnrate at a tactical cruise of 31.0 with the Omega Set and some creative Captain skills.

This makes the 'killer whale' almost as fast as my KDF Vor'Cha and with the exception of DHCs, they both run exactly the same loadout and are effective as tactical cruisers.

It doesn't have any boasting rights on the forum due to so called lack of tanking ability.. but seriously, speed means I can dictate the battle at any range and angle, and Threat Control plus self-heal works just as well or even better when I'm moving fast enough to retain the tactical advantage in any scenario.

So here's a suggestion to think out of the box. You want to be flying -your- ship that you know, love and understand its development. That's why I always encourage anyone to experiment. That's why STO has ship customization as one of its most important features.
STF Flight Instructor since Early 2012. Newbies are the reason why STO lives and breathes today. Do not discriminate.

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Last edited by carmenara; 07-30-2012 at 02:38 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 961
# 5
07-30-2012, 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
The problem with trying to get creative on the Mirror Assault is that (IIRC) it has a very limited Tactical palette. You have a Lt. and an Ens., and bear in mind that you really need to take at least one copy of Tactical Team, preferably two (it's just far too useful/life-saving to go without). You're also crippled by an extremely sluggish turn rate; this makes bringing narrow arcs to bear difficult at best.

Do you PvP a lot, or are you just looking to build a ship that'll blitz through PvE stuff?
Quote:
Also, I might drop torp spread for Tactical team 1. It can be a lifesaver for a slowboat.
PvEs on normal, mainly. I don't have the experience or the gear to carry my weight in Elite right now and as such I won't waste anyone's time screwing up their optionals

Thanks for the advice on Tac Team, I guess I'll bring in my Escort's lead Boff then.

Quote:
Personally, I would not run those two science abilities in an stf. Youll get far more mileage out of Hazard emitters 1 and Transfer shield strength 2.
I figured a hold of some kind would be necessary, since I was giving up my precious Danubes. Also, in lieu of AP Omega I opted for Polarize Hull to break the Borg tractors. Then again, if I've got all these beams and drop the DBB it probably won't matter too much which way I'm facing anyhoo
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 6
07-30-2012, 04:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay View Post
I know that mixing weapon energy types ("Rainbow boating" etc.) results in a penalty to weapon power, but does mixing weapon TYPES, like Dual Beam Banks with Beam Arrays or Dual Cannons with Dual Heavy Cannons or Photons with Quantums, incur the same penalty?
No, there's no penalty incurred so long as you're using damage-type consoles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay View Post
(which I'm told is basically a Star Cruiser)
It is actually an Assault Cruiser that only looks like a Star Cruiser, plus +200 crew capacity advantage. Same console & Bridge Officer configurations.

And yes, having lots of crew on cruisers actually DO provide an advantage. Your passive innate hull regeneration depends entirely on your current Able crew. With a higher crew count, you can take more hits to your crew without severely impacting your natural repair speeds.

You should grab a Reinforcement-variant Nurse DOff to boost your crew regeneration speed. A blue-quality should be sufficient. Purple-quality Nurses are priced to the moon & back, for obviously justified reasons.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 7
07-30-2012, 06:37 AM
Able crew means squat when using an engineer though. Aux2SIF, Hazard Emitters, Miracle Worker, and 2 piece borg set makes natural regen far to slow to really make any difference when these are added and used in unison with one another.

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is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 8
07-30-2012, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay View Post
PvEs on normal, mainly. I don't have the experience or the gear to carry my weight in Elite right now and as such I won't waste anyone's time screwing up their optionals

Thanks for the advice on Tac Team, I guess I'll bring in my Escort's lead Boff then.



I figured a hold of some kind would be necessary, since I was giving up my precious Danubes. Also, in lieu of AP Omega I opted for Polarize Hull to break the Borg tractors. Then again, if I've got all these beams and drop the DBB it probably won't matter too much which way I'm facing anyhoo
If you go with an Aux2Bat build (expensive but worth it) like the one posted a little bit above me, you can take Tractor Beam Repulsors instead. What's lovely is that it works best at low aux, meaning you can push probes or spheres or Borg pizza couriers around or whatever, but not ridiculously far, and because of your low aux they'll be staying in your TBR beam and taking far more straight-to-hull damage because of it.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,529
# 9
07-30-2012, 09:33 PM
If your using TBR for it's damage potential your just going to be one of those people who use it when the cooldown ends and annoying everyone by pushing the target out of range, out of CC and most heinously of all; failing an objective by pushing the wrong thing to the wrong place because of it.

TBR as Crowd Control is easy to put on any ship, and incredibly useful when done right. TBR as Damage is a joke.

Now that being said TBR as Crowd Control does do some small damage as a bonus.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 10
07-30-2012, 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
If your using TBR for it's damage potential your just going to be one of those people who use it when the cooldown ends and annoying everyone by pushing the target out of range, out of CC and most heinously of all; failing an objective by pushing the wrong thing to the wrong place because of it.

TBR as Crowd Control is easy to put on any ship, and incredibly useful when done right. TBR as Damage is a joke.

Now that being said TBR as Crowd Control does do some small damage as a bonus.
This doesn't really make sense... for one thing, TBR does far less actual pushing if you're maxing out damage, and second if it's buffed properly the damage is positively insane (TBR only rolls for crits once, meaning if you crit the first time the rest will be straight-to-hull crits as well. It's an especially good option for Engies looking to squeeze out some damage from their fatboats and with good positioning it can save optionals or shave minutes off an STF run (ever had the spheres get caught between the Tac Cube and the gateway without moving? Yeah).

Yeah, TBR can be abused, but so can peyote, dune buggies and unprotected sex. Don't shoot the messenger!
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