Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 609
# 1 Remove Fleet Marks
07-30-2012, 04:18 PM
Yes, I said it, remove them from the game, they shouldn't be here. You all ask for way too much as it is when it comes to projects. We need time to gather those resources, the fleet marks add a huge HUGE time addition to the total sum of Starbase progression by themselves, and they reduce the time we would use gathering other resources.

They are destroying any chance small fleets have at getting larger, and I do mean destroying, remove them, Now. They are a waste, they are a grind fest, and they are unfair, especially combined with unrealistic excessive "Double every requirement but lower the exp gained" every new starbase tier.

Please Cryptic, No one has a fleet that can keep up with this kind of gouging, NO ONE.

I'd say fleet marks for smaller fleets, quadruple or more, the time it took prior to the nonsense cooldown you guys added recently.

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |

Last edited by mewi; 07-30-2012 at 04:21 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 389
# 2
07-30-2012, 04:36 PM
IF your wanting your starbase faster it's not going to happen the whole idea behind this was it would take even a large fleet atleast 7 months or more to get a full starbase up and running. my fleet is having no problem getting things done yes it takes time but hey theats the way it should be the earth was not made overnight neither should a starbase
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 609
# 3
07-30-2012, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bughunter357 View Post
IF your wanting your starbase faster it's not going to happen the whole idea behind this was it would take even a large fleet atleast 7 months or more to get a full starbase up and running. my fleet is having no problem getting things done yes it takes time but hey theats the way it should be the earth was not made overnight neither should a starbase
That has nothing to do with fleet marks... the starbase without the fleet marks would still take 7 months if all projects are actively started on time.

Or did you forget all the "build times" "project times" etc?

Fleet marks increase the time for smaller fleets by years with the way they are now. This gives an opportunity and huge advantage for larger fleets anyway, which already had a huge advantage to begin with. Not only that, the fleet member cap is 500, giving the bigger fleets even more of an advantage due to the fact that they can horde a good portion of the STO community without having to kick them.

Fleet Marks do nothing to the smaller fleets, except destroy their ability to advance. Encouraging active members to leave their smaller fleet for a larger fleet. This is sickening.

I was looking at a year maybe more for Starbase Tier 5, but now I am looking at years. So tell me, does that seem like "built in a day" work? Seriously? Do you even know how the starbase system works? :S

| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 425
# 4
07-30-2012, 08:10 PM
Posted this elsewhere, thought it would be appropriate here too...

Didn't we have a bunch of currencies before Season 5? Weren't they removed because there were too many? And they were all combined, and now we get More. Lets see, maybe I won't miss any...
  1. Energy Credits
  2. Gold Pressed Latinum
  3. Dilithium (should Common and Uncommon Unreplicatable mats count? Should Refined and Unrefined be separate? I'm not sure)
  4. Zen
  5. Fleet Marks
  6. Fleet Credits
  7. EDC
  8. Lobi
  9. Rare Borg Salvage
  10. Prototype Borg Salvage
  11. Fleet Modules

Did I get them all?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 487
# 5
07-30-2012, 08:28 PM
Sounds about right...

Task Force Zulu--Back to Duty X4 SB T1.5, Tac 2, Eng 1 & Sci 1.
Subscribe to STO--1546+ days
LTS Since December 2011
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 399
# 6
07-31-2012, 12:47 AM
If Fleet Marks stay or go, I couldn't care less.
What disappoints me a bit is, the Starbase itself does in no way emphasize on teambuilding.
Leaving "Player Skill Level" out of the equasion, you can be fine just doing your stuff whenever you feel to, alone if you prefer. There is no encouragement for playing in a fleetgroup, no bonusses or something.

Add in the fact that except for the ships the benefits are hardly existent, and the way of leveling your starbase is a bit screwed (it feels like they hardcoded required XPs for starbase, and adjusted the projects XP to compensate).

MMOs with Guilds/Fleets which can level up usually do so, because you do something fleety: level toons, playing together with others etc.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 62
# 7
07-31-2012, 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchngc View Post
Posted this elsewhere, thought it would be appropriate here too...

Didn't we have a bunch of currencies before Season 5? Weren't they removed because there were too many? And they were all combined, and now we get More. Lets see, maybe I won't miss any...
  1. Energy Credits
  2. Gold Pressed Latinum
  3. Dilithium (should Common and Uncommon Unreplicatable mats count? Should Refined and Unrefined be separate? I'm not sure)
  4. Zen
  5. Fleet Marks
  6. Fleet Credits
  7. EDC
  8. Lobi
  9. Rare Borg Salvage
  10. Prototype Borg Salvage
  11. Fleet Modules

Did I get them all?
Typical Cryptic approach - left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing...
The user formerly known as DogsBody.
Here before PWE (and hopefully) here long after PWE is gone.

What this game needs is PvP, NOT PWE.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 120
# 8
07-31-2012, 09:11 PM
The Marks grind prevents this from being a totally pay-to-win game.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 530
# 9
07-31-2012, 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvlar View Post
The Marks grind prevents this from being a totally pay-to-win game.
Considering that real money isn't going to build the starbase any faster (even without Fleet Marks), and that fleet ships will still require Fleet Modules (purchaseable in Z-store), I'm not sure I follow...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 120
# 10
08-02-2012, 09:19 AM
Marks are the ONLY part of StarBase construction that I've seen so far, that can't be bought with RL cash.
( EC will buy pretty much anything, and the Cash -> Dilithium -> EC process is very straightforward )

Without the Marks being a necessary component of the construction, there would be less incentive for many players to contribute their time. There are more interesting things to do than play the same 10 minute missions over... and over... and over.
So it is likely that StarBase construction would stall, if depending strictly on player time.

The "Advanced" and "Elite" ships, Buffs, and Equipment, are desirable to have. ( If only for the "new and shiny" aspect. If they actually affect game balance, that raises other thoughts about all the other gear and equipment we have worked/played for. )
StarBase construction would continue, but the best completion times would be through the efforts of aggressive players who have cash to burn.

The PlayerBase would also lose the ability for any meaningful contributions, ( and any political influence ) via straight-up game play. ( without cash contribution. )

Wanting/Needing the "New Shinies" in the shops, the players would need to deal with and follow the "Fleet Rules & Regulations" imposed by Fleet Leadership. These "Rules" would not depend on whether players stayed or left a Fleet. ( The need for Marks forces Leaders to pay closer attention to Fleet player needs, and especially the "high-earners" )

A Mark-free StarBase effort, imo, would lead to a situation that would severely harm the game.

The grind for Marks, in its current form, is hopefully just the "Starter" package of missions. We have seen the DOffs system expand dramatically from its first days, and we can take a bit of comfort, I think, that the same Dev who designed the DOff system designed the StarBase system.

Anyone who has a different percepton on how things might play out in a "Mark-less" StarBase effort, please feel free to comment.
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