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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Ok, I've been thinking about the problem that small and single-player fleets have gathering Fleet Marks. Especially if that player is more involved in alternative content such as STF's, Doffing, or the Foundry.

What about a time-gated mission, project, DOFF assignment, or something else that allowed a player to exchange Fleet Credits for Fleet Marks? This could allow a fleet to accelerate the accumulation of Fleet Marks in return for an unfavorable loss of Fleet Credits that would impact buying provisions later on.

The trick is figuring out how to do this in a way that doesn't become an exploit.

There's the obvious wrinkle that contributing Fleet Marks generates additional Fleet Credits. So obviously the solution has to at least partially negate that gain.

So here's my thought... what if you could buy a "Fleet Mark bundle" in the Fleet store by contributing to and completing a special provisioning project?

This would be set up so that you'd be spending Fleet Credits faster than you could earn them by re-contributing any Fleet Marks that you bought in the Fleet store. And it would be gated by project completion so force multiplication wouldn't be a factor. The provisioning project would require some resources, but not Fleet Marks.

It's a bit convoluted, but I think it's doable and probably wouldn't be a major change to the system.

Large fleets would not benefit from this very much if at all, as it should be easier and more efficient to simply gather the Fleet Marks the regular way. But small fleets that struggle to accumulate Fleet Marks would be able to sacrifice Fleet Credits to make project completion a little easier. Higher tier starbases would be more in reach of the smallest fleets.

A side-benefit of this would make it easier for players to leave one fleet and join another one. Any Fleet Credits they earned could potentially be converted back to Fleet Marks at a ratio that keeps it from being an exploit but allows them to contribute back to their new fleet.

Now, can the people here who are smarter and better at math than I am help me poke holes in this hair-brained idea and make it better?
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Last edited by bluegeek; 08-01-2012 at 09:14 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,206
# 2
08-01-2012, 09:17 AM
There's a fatal flaw to your idea. The SB is about one cardinal rule.

Everything about it is geared towards you spending money.

So the next time another (and there are many!) project kicks off for 200,000 dili. remember thats roughly 500 zen.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,614
# 3
08-01-2012, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
There's a fatal flaw to your idea. The SB is about one cardinal rule.

Everything about it is geared towards you spending money.

So the next time another (and there are many!) project kicks off for 200,000 dili. remember thats roughly 500 zen.
I don't understand what you're getting at.

How does exchanging credits for marks hurt Cryptic's profits or make me want to spend less money? By helping small fleets advance faster, the more projects they'll want to complete and the more they'll spend on it.

At lower Starbase tiers, there's nothing much to spend Fleet Credits on anyway. Why not "reinvest" them back into the Starbase? Helping small fleets advance faster increases the chances that they will reach a tier where they'll want to spend Fleet Credits and FSM's on those shiny new fleet ships.

Once the Starbase gets to the point where Fleet Credits can be used to buy what the fleet members want, the less likely they'll want to spend them in exchange for Fleet Marks. In that regard, it would seem to be self-regulating.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 4
08-01-2012, 09:59 AM
And how'd you regulate that only small fleets can use this?
For large fleets, this would totally eliminate the need for Fleet Marks from grinding. Instant starbase advances as a side effect.

Btw, Fleet marks don't serve as a money incentive - they're meant as a time incentive, a motivation to spent time on the game, and time that's not spent gatheriing other useful currencies for advancement.
They ARE meant to distract you from gathering Dilithium, EC or DOffs or whatever, to slow down average advancement in these currencies.

So I really doubt you'll get lucky with this idea
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,748
# 5
08-01-2012, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
And how'd you regulate that only small fleets can use this?
For large fleets, this would totally eliminate the need for Fleet Marks from grinding. Instant starbase advances as a side effect.

Btw, Fleet marks don't serve as a money incentive - they're meant as a time incentive, a motivation to spent time on the game, and time that's not spent gatheriing other useful currencies for advancement.
They ARE meant to distract you from gathering Dilithium, EC or DOffs or whatever, to slow down average advancement in these currencies.

So I really doubt you'll get lucky with this idea
I like your idea OP, I really do, but I have to go with this here. ^^

It'd only really in my thoughts, hurt smaller fleets over time more than larger ones. The smaller ones could use your idea, yes, but the bigger fleets who have huge amounts of stuff put into it already would be able to use it almost non-stop, while still donating anything else the starbase requires.

Even if there was a fair way of doing this, again the previous poster said it well, the FMs are to keep you playing.

Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,614
# 6
08-01-2012, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
And how'd you regulate that only small fleets can use this?
For large fleets, this would totally eliminate the need for Fleet Marks from grinding. Instant starbase advances as a side effect.
No, there would be no way to regulate against large fleets using it... but the fact would remain that they would be able to advance faster just gathering fleet marks the normal way since that is subject to force multiplication. Credit exchange wouldn't speed that up a whole lot... they're still gated by project completion.

Many people contributing many fleet marks, as opposed to a small handful buying a handful of them with fleet credits. The project system itself could naturally regulate how the feature got used, since you can't run more than 3 projects at a time and each provisioning project would only generate so many fleet marks at a time.

Remember, I'm not advocating any sort of one-for-one exchange. There has to be a downside, and the downside would be a net loss of fleet credits.

Any expenditure of fleet credits would tend to limit the amount you have available to spend later on. You could pick up (x) fleet marks, but you'd just have to spend that much more time grinding out fleet credits later on to buy any other provisionable goods.

Plus, if you run a FM provisioning project, you'd be taking up a project slot that couldn't be used to advance the starbase or provision the stores with something else. That would actually slow down a large fleet, not speed them up. Small fleets aren't likely to have the resources to keep three normal projects running at the same time anyway, so the loss of a project slot is less of an impact for them.

I think the trade-offs would tend to keep large fleets from wanting to use it a whole lot.

I'm also not suggesting that small fleets would be able to use it to advance as fast or faster than a large fleet. Just faster than they do now.

It's still a grind, it's just shifting it around in a way that would let small fleets advance a little bit faster at the cost of being poorer in fleet credits later on. They'd still have to play catch up, but they'd have the advantage of fewer people to divide up the fleet credits with.

One argument is that Fleet Marks keep people playing. My counter argument is that they also hurt people with limited amounts of time who are doing other things like authoring Foundry missions, PvP, or STF's. Unless they add fleet marks for those activities, it's a disincentive to participate one way or the other.

Believe me, guys, I'm under no illusions that the Devs are going to jump right on this idea. There are probably exploits and downsides I haven't thought of yet. It's just a suggestion that would probably get shot down even if we figured out how Cryptic should implement it. On the other hand, I don't see any reason so far not to suggest it.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
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