Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 103
# 11 cha' DarSeqwiJ...
08-02-2012, 07:10 AM
This is an interesting topic. One of the things I get from the various (frustrated) replies in this thread is that people have been waiting for Starbases to be a total game-changer and allow players to switch focus to this new game-play type.

We saw this with DOffs as well. We have been so starved for new content in this game that when something really entertaining gets added we throw all of our effort into doing it because, let's face it, we've done everything else already.

This is not surprising of course, because as stated, the content droughts of the past have been long and grueling periods of "Hurry up and wait" for the next big thing.

The problem with this approach is that it leads to burnout.

The Starbase system (as well as the DOffs for that matter) need to be taken as pieces, awesome pieces, of a much larger whole that has not been entirely realized yet. In other words one more thing to do in the game rather than "The" thing to do in the game.

That's asking a lot of us as players, frankly, and especially as long as we have had to wait for compelling new features and game-play options in the not so distant past.

However, we have seen Cryptic step-up their game since F2P has launched. Some of that has been hard to swallow because of the focus on micro-transactions, lock boxes, time-gating, and so on, but we have also seen an awful lot of work go into revamping almost every aspect of the game, and continued discussion on plans to revamp the rest.

If Cryptic can keep up the pace for another 3-4 seasons, that will mean a truly expansive game with many different types of game-play to rotate through.

Coming from that longer-view perspective, maxing out DOffs, fully kitting out with STF gear, or unlocking Tier 5 of a Starbase, can be seen as a range of different ways to play the game over an extended period of time.

I interact with new (and returning) players frequently, and those that are just coming into the game for the first time (or have not played in a year or more) are often floored and even a little overwhelmed by the magnitude of optional things to do.

So yes, grinding any single aspect of STO will get tedious and expensive, and, as mentioned, can lead to burn out and frustration, but each one of us has the choice to throw ourselves into that cycle--or not to.

Even now, a semi-regular player (say six or so hours a week), can log in and find a variety of different types of content to play with. If all six of those hours are spent doing exactly the same thing, then the challenges of maxing out that one focus will be painful. On the other hand, spending that time doing a range of activities may mean slower progress in each, but in the long run may prove more satisfying.

I freely admit that I have, at times, been caught up in the excitement and expectation of having something new to do as additional content gets rolled out, but I have typically had to pace myself because of real-world responsibilities and obligations as well. The result is that I am NOT a master of any one particular aspect of STO (believe me you don't want me on your PvP or elite STF team), but I have also been continuously playing since open Beta and have yet to burn out.

I see Starbases in the same light. I am a member of a large, well organized Fleet (12th Fleet), so some of our progress-related pains get spread out over a large number of members. But I also have alts in a private fleet, as well as in our Alt-fleets, and I know that progress there is going to be very slow.

If the pay-out for achieving the maximum Tier of a Starbase seems to be underwhelming (and currently it is), perhaps it is worth simply stepping back and looking at it from another perspective. STO is not about Starbases. Starbases just happen to be one of the various things to do within the larger scope of the game.

I think Cryptic knows this, and is banking on players consuming it in small doses over the long haul, rather than racing through it all at once... In fact various Devs have been saying as much from the earliest mention of Season 6.

Are Starbases a cool new toy? Yup. Are they going to be ridiculously challenging to max out? Yup. Are they meant to be the pinnacle and final piece of the puzzle which makes STO complete... I don't think so. I'd go even further, and say that two years down the road, many of us will be continuing to plug away at building our homes in STO, while focusing on many other aspects of the game.

Some of those other aspects will, hopefully, be entertaining in their own rights.

When viewed in this light, I feel that, in time; Starbases, STFs, DOffs, and any number of other (as yet unimplemented) types of content, will ultimately serve to make the overall Star Trek Online gaming experience very diverse and engaging... We simply are not quite there yet. However, to be fair, we have never before seen this level of development-related momentum happening in STO either.

cha' DarSeqwij (My two Darseks)...
Previously: QorDaq
Lt. General, KDF Division Commanding, 12th Fleet
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 171
# 12
08-02-2012, 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiberteksyfir View Post
Have to agree a few adjustments are needed. Add FMs to all PvE/mission content, and for the love of god do something about the DOFF requirements. My fleet has had that 30 sensors/30 energy weapons assignment active (cant even trash the thing because there's no options to cancel an assignment or switch between active and queue'd) for over a week now. Sensors officers are getting just plain stupid on the exchange, over 1mil each.
same here. my fleet of about 150 +/- has had that one as well for a while. cant scare up anymore doffs for those at the moment
we're halfway to tier 2 and assuming the wiki is correct about the increasing resource requirements, i dont think anyone is going to have anything left to advance the base any farther
what was it, 60-80k of just dil to station a single tac, sci, eng officer?

granted, in the series, a starbase would take some time to build (perhaps a year or 2, just a guess), but years in a game to grind out stuff. just insane

i would like to know who is making a killing from selling doffs on the exchange
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,738
# 13
08-02-2012, 07:12 AM
I guess, when it boils down to it, if I am honest I probably won't bother with the tedious Starbase grind* once I've obtained the Fleet ship(s) I require, which unlock at starbase Tier 3.

* I wouldn't mind it so much if it weren't such a resource drain.

STAR TREK BATTLES - HIGH DPS PLAYERS NEED NOT APPY

Last edited by reyan01; 08-02-2012 at 07:17 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,058
# 14
08-02-2012, 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qordaq View Post
This is an interesting topic. One of the things I get from the various (frustrated) replies in this thread is that people have been waiting for Starbases to be a total game-changer and allow players to switch focus to this new game-play type.

We saw this with DOffs as well. We have been so starved for new content in this game that when something really entertaining gets added we throw all of our effort into doing it because, let's face it, we've done everything else already.

This is not surprising of course, because as stated, the content droughts of the past have been long and grueling periods of "Hurry up and wait" for the next big thing.

The problem with this approach is that it leads to burnout.

The Starbase system (as well as the DOffs for that matter) need to be taken as pieces, awesome pieces, of a much larger whole that has not been entirely realized yet. In other words one more thing to do in the game rather than "The" thing to do in the game.

That's asking a lot of us as players, frankly, and especially as long as we have had to wait for compelling new features and game-play options in the not so distant past.

However, we have seen Cryptic step-up their game since F2P has launched. Some of that has been hard to swallow because of the focus on micro-transactions, lock boxes, time-gating, and so on, but we have also seen an awful lot of work go into revamping almost every aspect of the game, and continued discussion on plans to revamp the rest.

If Cryptic can keep up the pace for another 3-4 seasons, that will mean a truly expansive game with many different types of game-play to rotate through.

Coming from that longer-view perspective, maxing out DOffs, fully kitting out with STF gear, or unlocking Tier 5 of a Starbase, can be seen as a range of different ways to play the game over an extended period of time.

I interact with new (and returning) players frequently, and those that are just coming into the game for the first time (or have not played in a year or more) are often floored and even a little overwhelmed by the magnitude of optional things to do.

So yes, grinding any single aspect of STO will get tedious and expensive, and, as mentioned, can lead to burn out and frustration, but each one of us has the choice to throw ourselves into that cycle--or not to.

Even now, a semi-regular player (say six or so hours a week), can log in and find a variety of different types of content to play with. If all six of those hours are spent doing exactly the same thing, then the challenges of maxing out that one focus will be painful. On the other hand, spending that time doing a range of activities may mean slower progress in each, but in the long run may prove more satisfying.

I freely admit that I have, at times, been caught up in the excitement and expectation of having something new to do as additional content gets rolled out, but I have typically had to pace myself because of real-world responsibilities and obligations as well. The result is that I am NOT a master of any one particular aspect of STO (believe me you don't want me on your PvP or elite STF team), but I have also been continuously playing since open Beta and have yet to burn out.

I see Starbases in the same light. I am a member of a large, well organized Fleet (12th Fleet), so some of our progress-related pains get spread out over a large number of members. But I also have alts in a private fleet, as well as in our Alt-fleets, and I know that progress there is going to be very slow.

If the pay-out for achieving the maximum Tier of a Starbase seems to be underwhelming (and currently it is), perhaps it is worth simply stepping back and looking at it from another perspective. STO is not about Starbases. Starbases just happen to be one of the various things to do within the larger scope of the game.

I think Cryptic knows this, and is banking on players consuming it in small doses over the long haul, rather than racing through it all at once... In fact various Devs have been saying as much from the earliest mention of Season 6.

Are Starbases a cool new toy? Yup. Are they going to be ridiculously challenging to max out? Yup. Are they meant to be the pinnacle and final piece of the puzzle which makes STO complete... I don't think so. I'd go even further, and say that two years down the road, many of us will be continuing to plug away at building our homes in STO, while focusing on many other aspects of the game.

Some of those other aspects will, hopefully, be entertaining in their own rights.

When viewed in this light, I feel that, in time; Starbases, STFs, DOffs, and any number of other (as yet unimplemented) types of content, will ultimately serve to make the overall Star Trek Online gaming experience very diverse and engaging... We simply are not quite there yet. However, to be fair, we have never before seen this level of development-related momentum happening in STO either.

cha' DarSeqwij (My two Darseks)...
THIS: I think you have hit the nail on the head and whilst I still think that Cryptic need to do something about the spiralling costs and requirements your approach gels nicely with me. Thank you for this, I will alter my priorities from now on.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8
# 15
08-02-2012, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qordaq View Post
Today, 06:10 AM

This is an interesting topic. One of the things I get from the various (frustrated) replies in this thread is that people have been waiting for Starbases to be a total game-changer and allow players to switch focus to this new game-play type.

We saw this with DOffs as well. We have been so starved for new content in this game that when something really entertaining gets added we throw all of our effort into doing it because, let's face it, we've done everything else already.

This is not surprising of course, because as stated, the content droughts of the past have been long and grueling periods of "Hurry up and wait" for the next big thing.

The problem with this approach is that it leads to burnout.

The Starbase system (as well as the DOffs for that matter) need to be taken as pieces, awesome pieces, of a much larger whole that has not been entirely realized yet. In other words one more thing to do in the game rather than "The" thing to do in the game.

That's asking a lot of us as players, frankly, and especially as long as we have had to wait for compelling new features and game-play options in the not so distant past.

However, we have seen Cryptic step-up their game since F2P has launched. Some of that has been hard to swallow because of the focus on micro-transactions, lock boxes, time-gating, and so on, but we have also seen an awful lot of work go into revamping almost every aspect of the game, and continued discussion on plans to revamp the rest.

If Cryptic can keep up the pace for another 3-4 seasons, that will mean a truly expansive game with many different types of game-play to rotate through.

Coming from that longer-view perspective, maxing out DOffs, fully kitting out with STF gear, or unlocking Tier 5 of a Starbase, can be seen as a range of different ways to play the game over an extended period of time.

I interact with new (and returning) players frequently, and those that are just coming into the game for the first time (or have not played in a year or more) are often floored and even a little overwhelmed by the magnitude of optional things to do.

So yes, grinding any single aspect of STO will get tedious and expensive, and, as mentioned, can lead to burn out and frustration, but each one of us has the choice to throw ourselves into that cycle--or not to.

Even now, a semi-regular player (say six or so hours a week), can log in and find a variety of different types of content to play with. If all six of those hours are spent doing exactly the same thing, then the challenges of maxing out that one focus will be painful. On the other hand, spending that time doing a range of activities may mean slower progress in each, but in the long run may prove more satisfying.

I freely admit that I have, at times, been caught up in the excitement and expectation of having something new to do as additional content gets rolled out, but I have typically had to pace myself because of real-world responsibilities and obligations as well. The result is that I am NOT a master of any one particular aspect of STO (believe me you don't want me on your PvP or elite STF team), but I have also been continuously playing since open Beta and have yet to burn out.

I see Starbases in the same light. I am a member of a large, well organized Fleet (12th Fleet), so some of our progress-related pains get spread out over a large number of members. But I also have alts in a private fleet, as well as in our Alt-fleets, and I know that progress there is going to be very slow.

If the pay-out for achieving the maximum Tier of a Starbase seems to be underwhelming (and currently it is), perhaps it is worth simply stepping back and looking at it from another perspective. STO is not about Starbases. Starbases just happen to be one of the various things to do within the larger scope of the game.

I think Cryptic knows this, and is banking on players consuming it in small doses over the long haul, rather than racing through it all at once... In fact various Devs have been saying as much from the earliest mention of Season 6.

Are Starbases a cool new toy? Yup. Are they going to be ridiculously challenging to max out? Yup. Are they meant to be the pinnacle and final piece of the puzzle which makes STO complete... I don't think so. I'd go even further, and say that two years down the road, many of us will be continuing to plug away at building our homes in STO, while focusing on many other aspects of the game.

Some of those other aspects will, hopefully, be entertaining in their own rights.

When viewed in this light, I feel that, in time; Starbases, STFs, DOffs, and any number of other (as yet unimplemented) types of content, will ultimately serve to make the overall Star Trek Online gaming experience very diverse and engaging... We simply are not quite there yet. However, to be fair, we have never before seen this level of development-related momentum happening in STO either.

cha' DarSeqwij (My two Darseks)...
Previously: QorDaq
Forum Member Since: Maybe Aug 2009, likely earlier. Never wrote the date down... We should have been warned!
** Signed **

Last edited by amavar; 08-02-2012 at 09:47 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,204
# 16
08-02-2012, 10:12 AM
I wholeheartedly agree with everything that has been said here.

My fleet has unlocked the SB, and after all that grind I was completely let down by the experience. Sure its pretty to look at, for all of 5 mins, and then I am left with the feeling - what have I been wasting my money on really???

There is not a single KDF ship that interests me.

From what I have heard the rewards of the SB hardly make up for the effort.

There is no sense of creating a personalised SB experience. No customisation, nothing. Its empty and very much like any other bridge.

I actually feel bad for the developers. I can see that they put in a hell of an effort on the SB concept.

Its failing, because:
  1. The monetarization is too in one's face. It's a sink.
  2. The 3 missions are repetitively boring.
  3. There is no truly uniqueness about the SB projects. The "decision-tree" is too routine and monotonous + EXPENSIVE.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 314
# 17
08-02-2012, 10:32 AM
I agree with most of what has been said in this thread.

The cost issue is huge, especially for small fleets. I get the idea of using the SB projects as just part of a whole; variety is good.

However, when it costs 200,000 dilithium just to unlock a cosmetic upgrade (in addition to the dilithium costs associated with other SB projects, crafting, zen exchange, and so forth), it's too much.

My wife would love for our SB to have the plants, displays, and consoles showing to give the base more atmosphere, but at that cost it'll never happen.

When I see people stating that Fleets of 100-200 are getting discouraged over the associated costs (not time, costs), I know our little Fleet of 5 (with 62 characters overall) is out of luck.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 107
# 18
08-02-2012, 11:20 AM
We are a smaller fleet and are having issues with the progression track also. I do believe that an ideal fleet size for this system is more into the 80-100 active member size. The DoFFs are the serious problem in this system so far. We continuously get the projects provisioned with just about everything else. That being said the 3 Doff recruitment assignments at SF Academy are spitting out much more criticals then any other mission currently.

Here is my simple suggestion.

Let us BUY white DoFFs for Dilithium at the DoFF place at Starfleet academy. We can do the green ones currently and above that. Let's say for 400 Dilithium. The proposed trade down system isn't exactly an ideal solution as it will just make purple doffs much more farm friendly. Not to mention this system is pretty much using every single pre-exsisting asset and will not require much if any new UI or system design. Just control the price of the DoFF with Dil as you see fit.



That would simply make the lower tiers much easier to attain for any size fleet. However, I don't know if they really want to have EVERY fleet be Tier 5. However just about any fleet IMHO should at least be able to get to tier 3.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,614
# 19
08-02-2012, 11:40 AM
I agree that there probably needs to be a DOFF vendor that allows players to directly buy the DOFFs they need for Starbase construction.

They don't have to be great DOFFs. It doesn't even matter what traits they have.

All that's required is that when we need a Security DO, we can get a Security DO (or whatever).

It doesn't make sense that the game economy is set up so that people can charge ludicrous prices for common duty officers, or so that common duty officers in demand are actually less common than uncommon duty officers.

A common DO vendor would keep prices under control, without necessarily cutting off the DO market on the Exchange. There would still be a need for DO's people can get with EC's instead of Dilithium.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 16
# 20
08-02-2012, 11:51 AM
One thing that needs to be done for sure is to have uncommon doff's available for purchase for either dilithium or EC at the academies. Some Common to Very Rare are available upon unlocking them, but why can't we purchase uncommon doff's when we can purchase uncommon boff's?
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