Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 15
# 1 Odyssey, Vesta, or ?
06-18-2013, 07:29 AM
Hello, here's the situation. I am a returning player trying to figure out what federation ship(s) to purchase while getting the best value for my zen. Currently I have 2 lvl 50 ENG, 1 lvl 50 SCI, 1 lvl 50 TAC, and 1 lvl 42 TAC and they are all using the free ships.

Primarily I will be playing PVE Fleet Actions, STF's, and Episodes while playing a little PVP on the side. The idea is to eventually have two sets of characters with one built for PVE and the other for PVP. Here are the ships I have been considering.

1. Odyssey 3-pack

2. Vesta 3-pack

3. Assault Cruiser Refit
Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit
Tactical Escort Retrofit or Heavy Escort Carrier

Fleet versions of theses when I can.

I am leaning heavily towards choice 3 but I wanted to get some opinions from people who have flown these ships and are familliar with the current state of the game. Looking through the forum I have seen a lot of post about ships being ruined, useless, obsolete, etc which already got me to remove Galaxy and MVAE from consideration.

The bottom line is that I would prefer to use the ships in the third choice but not if Odyssey or Vesta are superior which I hope they aren't.

Thank you in advance for any comments, suggestions, and opinions you have to offer.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,001
# 2
06-18-2013, 07:49 AM
From the looks of it, it seems you're sitting on 6k-ish zen.

I know many many people are going to disagree with me, but I would suggest considering the separate tactical Vesta, combined with either a cruiser or escort of choice (whichever class of ships you like better). Any remaining zen you can save up for a bit, and maybe get your 3rd choice later.

I won't go into concrete advice, but while the console sets look nice on paper, they also take up 3 console slots, for abilities with somewhat long cooldowns. Your tac slots you'll want to use for tac consoles regardless of what you do. You'll probably want to run the Borg console, in most builds. That would pretty much preclude anything other that some 1 or 2 sci/eng consoles. That's why I think the question of whether you actually need the 3-pack is something to consider.

Good luck shipshopping!
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,563
# 3
06-18-2013, 08:01 AM
It is like asking whether you would like to buy an apple, orange or banana with your 50 cents. As far as 3-packs go, I think they are tremendously overrated. There is little room for 3 universal consoles on top of everything else nowadays. To start with I would reserve just 2500 zen for a single ship.

As for the choices - I would not suggest Odyssey. Though the variants are versatile with a number of potential roles, the tactical focus will get you the furthest, and in this regard the Assault Cruiser Refit and Adv Heavy Cruiser Retrofit (Regent and Excelsior, and the fleet versions) are better choices. Both tacs and engis can do well in these ships. With your remaining zen you could go for a tactical or science Vesta for your science toon, or put it towards raising funds for a Wells.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 4
06-18-2013, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twam View Post
From the looks of it, it seems you're sitting on 6k-ish zen.

I know many many people are going to disagree with me, but I would suggest considering the separate tactical Vesta, combined with either a cruiser or escort of choice (whichever class of ships you like better). Any remaining zen you can save up for a bit, and maybe get your 3rd choice later.

I won't go into concrete advice, but while the console sets look nice on paper, they also take up 3 console slots, for abilities with somewhat long cooldowns. Your tac slots you'll want to use for tac consoles regardless of what you do. You'll probably want to run the Borg console, in most builds. That would pretty much preclude anything other that some 1 or 2 sci/eng consoles. That's why I think the question of whether you actually need the 3-pack is something to consider.

Good luck shipshopping!
1) I shouted this for so long, that ppl are now starting to believe it, like some kinda weird Stockholm Syndrome

2) people on the forums start to think (I srsly believe the first one is a higher possibility)



^ whatever he said

Ody is not great, you dont want that much versitality on a cruiser

Vesta is brilliant, you have too much versitality for your own good

assault c refit. popular choice, the main problem being, it is not a fleet ship (the consoles are decent, tho not necessary). I would not recommend it, its cheaper to buy the fleet version, loosing the universal console and torp

same goes for HEC. it has a brilliant uni console (the kind, that if you have, you will probably equip), but again, buying the fleet version is cheaper

long range sci - not rly good compared to the vesta (pve, for pvp you could argue it is better, and I can imagine a few instances where it might be) - buy the fleet version if you rly want it, and dont have the vesta

tac escort retro - for pvp buying it is nice for the cloak. but wasting money and console slot for a cloak is kind of a... waste. fleet version is a good ship (tho it does not get a shield bonus, so jemmi attack ship is still better)

to answer your q. the vesta and (especially) the ody are not FAR superior to those of the third option
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10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,055
# 5
06-18-2013, 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
assault c refit. popular choice, the main problem being, it is not a fleet ship (the consoles are decent, tho not necessary). I would not recommend it, its cheaper to buy the fleet version, loosing the universal console and torp
Two comments on this, seeing as how I have both the AC-R and the fleet version.

1) It is NOT cheaper if you plan on ever getting another Fleet Assault Cruiser. With the discount from the c-store version, the total price is $25. Get a second one for a second toon for $30 total. However, without the c-store version, it would cost $40 for two Fleet Assault Cruisers. Furthermore, the wide-arc qtorp is pretty awesome, and I use it on virtually every ship on all Fed toons, so it's a really great weapon. Your mileage may vary, but for me it's really the only way to get a torpedo involved in broadside attacks, even though it's got a bit lower DPS than a standard Mk XII qtorp.

2) My Riker Maneuver console rots in my bank. I don't think I've seen it actually used during group missions by anyone, although I could be wrong. Unless you are a massive fan of Eject Warp Plasma, this console will not get you much mileage.

As an additional note, the AC-R is basically a "side grade" from the standard Assault Cruiser, towards a more tactical focus. It is not going to be massively superior to the standard Assault Cruiser, although I prefer its tactical bent. The Fleet AC has a good bit more pep, though, and on the toon I have it on, I use it almost all the time.

As for me, while I have the Odyssey pack and used it a lot on one of my tactical characters, I only use it on my engineer now. Although I personally think you'll get the most from your money if you get the 3-pack - and IMO the saucer separation is the most important console by far - it does carry the drawback of turning your 10-console ship into a 7 console ship, albeit with toys that are useful. The Aquarius itself is basically a flying coffin - some swear by it, but it's only very rarely done anything significant except explode on me. When in separated mode, the Odyssey is basically one of the best tactical cruisers one could ask for, but you have to be able to manage the fact that it's a big hulking slow cruiser first and foremost. If it were me and I had to choose only one of the Odyssey class, I would pick the Operations ship, because of the saucer separation, but with all three I go with the tactical variant with all three consoles. Science is also a viable variant, but the Sensor Analysis isn't really that great, contrary to popular belief - you or your opponent will usually be dead by the time it provides more omph than an additional tac console would provide. Personally, I believe I enjoy my Fleet AC more. Although it took a bit, after playing with the Odyssey and AC-R for a while on my tac, I slowly ended up favoring the AC-R. It is viable, however, to simply use the saucer sep console on the ship, although you don't get the set bonuses (which aren't huge, but they do exist).

Hope this helps some. I can't really comment on the science ships.

IMPORTANT EDIT REGARDING PRICE - Ugh, I am a massive derp. Picking up the c-store AC-R and fleet version together is $30 total (not $25), with $5 for each Fleet AC thereafter. I'm sorry about that, although it's still a very sound ship and I doubt you'd be unhappy with it.

Last edited by red01999; 06-19-2013 at 07:30 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 15
# 6
06-18-2013, 12:17 PM
Thanks for the replies. I have decided to pass on the bundles and choose one ship at a time.

P.S. I just realized that I posted to the wrong forum so if a moderator could move it somewhere more appropriate that would be great.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 984
# 7
06-18-2013, 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keltorn View Post
Hello, here's the situation. I am a returning player trying to figure out what federation ship(s) to purchase while getting the best value for my zen. Currently I have 2 lvl 50 ENG, 1 lvl 50 SCI, 1 lvl 50 TAC, and 1 lvl 42 TAC and they are all using the free ships.

Primarily I will be playing PVE Fleet Actions, STF's, and Episodes while playing a little PVP on the side. The idea is to eventually have two sets of characters with one built for PVE and the other for PVP. Here are the ships I have been considering.

1. Odyssey 3-pack

2. Vesta 3-pack

3. Assault Cruiser Refit
Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit
Tactical Escort Retrofit or Heavy Escort Carrier

Fleet versions of theses when I can.

I am leaning heavily towards choice 3 but I wanted to get some opinions from people who have flown these ships and are familliar with the current state of the game. Looking through the forum I have seen a lot of post about ships being ruined, useless, obsolete, etc which already got me to remove Galaxy and MVAE from consideration.

The bottom line is that I would prefer to use the ships in the third choice but not if Odyssey or Vesta are superior which I hope they aren't.

Thank you in advance for any comments, suggestions, and opinions you have to offer.
I haven't flown the Odyssey or the Vesta ships, so I can't assist you in evaluating these ships. I have and do fly the Sovvie-refit, the Intrepid-retrofit, and Defiant-retrofit.

The Defiant is a beast. Straight up, pure and simple. I love its aesthetics and its gameplay. You can't go wrong with this ship if you like to fly escorts. The cloak console is not that useful, particularly if you only plan to do PVE - but if you're going to do PVP on the side, then that console can let you shoot first and if you have the Fleet version, with it's 5th tac console, you can really bring on the pain.

Similarly, the Sovvie-R is a beast. Again, I love its look and how it handles. The wide-arc q-torp launcher is terrific for this ship and any other cruiser you might want to fly. It's not as punchy as a regular q-torp launcher, but it doesn't have to be. The wide-arc complements a cruiser's broadsiding. The metreon gas console though, well... it sits in my bank, unused. I guess it could be used as a substitute for eject warp plasma, but you would sacrifice a console slot for that. And I don't think it's worth it for that.

The Intrepid-retrofit is... alright. I love the Intrepid-class ship's looks. You might be sensing a theme here, that the aesthetics are important to me. But on the gameplay side of it, I think on paper the free Luna-class ship you can get is slightly better. And I do mean slight - one extra point of turn rate (was more important than it is now), a better ensign boff slot (tactical over the Intrepid's science). Unfortunately, the fleet version doesn't mix things up with the boff arrangement, and it's a Tier 5 ship too. I'm more disappointed in the Fleet version than the c-store version to be honest. Especially when you can get a pissy little Fleet Nova at a lower tier and a better boff arrangement.

But everything I've heard is that the Vesta class is better at being a science ship and at dealing out damage, which is gonna be the biggest problem if you fly science ships. So if that's important to you, and if you can stand the Vesta's fugly appearance, then perhaps the Vesta bundle will suit you.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 8
06-18-2013, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
Two comments on this, seeing as how I have both the AC-R and the fleet version.

1) It is NOT cheaper if you plan on ever getting another Fleet Assault Cruiser. With the discount from the c-store version, the total price is $25. Get a second one for a second toon for $30 total. However, without the c-store version, it would cost $40 for two Fleet Assault Cruisers. Furthermore, the wide-arc qtorp is pretty awesome, and I use it on virtually every ship on all Fed toons, so it's a really great weapon. Your mileage may vary, but for me it's really the only way to get a torpedo involved in broadside attacks, even though it's got a bit lower DPS than a standard Mk XII qtorp.
I stand corrected

as the game becomes more and more single char oriented, I forget more and more of these kind of subtleties the same stands for the HEC, it makes the FHEC cheaper, and the others too (altho, in another approach, 20 mil EC might still be cheaper than 500 zen)
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10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,279
# 9
06-18-2013, 02:26 PM
Quote:
1. Odyssey 3-pack
I really don't think the Odyssey 3-pack is worth getting, compared to recent 3-packs like the Vesta or the Andorian Escort. I'm not trying to compare the ships to each other, just the additional value you're getting over a single purchase. No costume variation, weak set boni, weak consoles and the same boff slots. If you want the Oddy, and unless you want the consoles for RP/fluff reasons, just purchase a single instead of the pack.


Quote:
3. Assault Cruiser Refit
So far, this is one of the more "valuable" ships I've bought so far, meaning I've gotten the most out of it. It's only a bit of hull and a Tac console short of the Fleet Assault and unlocks the WA Quantum Torp, which is a good choice for broadsiding cruisers. It might lack a third modifier, but the other 2 are decent (not like the all-[dmg] quad cannons).

Quote:
Looking through the forum I have seen a lot of post about ships being ruined, useless, obsolete,
Everyone has their favorite and is going to put down any other opinion. 95% of the 9 and 10 console ships in the game can outperform 99% of the playerbase if set up and piloted correctly.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,062
# 10
06-18-2013, 03:19 PM
Since LoR I've fallen in love again with my ScOdy as a Sci. If you use the LtCom as a Sci she is a very potent Sci focused ship that can do good damage and tank. You can stock up on some alternate gear/boffs/doffs and do anything you want without having to visit ESD to switch ships. I recommend the 3 pack, because the best console (saucer sep) comes on the worst hull (Operations) and if you are going to buy 2 you may as well get the 3rd free.

My Vesta rots in space dock. As I own an Atrox and know how to fly her I get little use out of the Vesta. Anything she can do my Atrox can do just as well if not better, and do more damage to boot. Too little hull to tank reliably, so that aspect of gameplay is right out. If you use your LtCom uni as a Tac, you give up a lot of sci ability, but you do not get enough DPS to out perform a good Atrox with their second hangar bay. This is as a sci, I do not know how it would feel as a Tac, as Tac captain abilities would buff the damage you do in the Vesta better then the Atrox... But if you want do do damage as a Sci in a Sci ship the Atrox is where its at (Or a Lobi carrier if you can afford it) Vesta is likely the best ship to Tour the Galaxy in, tho... That's something...

I never fly my defiant, I much prefer the MVAE (and most recently the Fleet Advanced Escort with the Multi-Vector console.) LtCom sci is great, and Beta Vector is simply amazing. The Andorian 3 pack gets a bad rap. She is very nice PvE when flown well. I can see how she might be too weak for PvP, but I don't do that often so... ask someone who cares.

I do not have the other 2 ships, but as someone who has played a lot of Sci, the LRSV never did it for me. Always seemed like one of the worst options... There is such a thing as being too specialized, and the Intrepid certainly sits right on that line. In a sci ship the value of having another Sci ensign versus an ensign in one of the areas you are weak in is just not there. I will say its a bit better then being stuck with 3 tac ensign slots or eng ensign slots, but still... Any build I can think of that would really use it would be better served with being able to slip in EP2W or TS or TT or anything else... But again I do not have one maybe its da bomb.
Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard

Last edited by kimmym; 06-18-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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