Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 928
# 11
08-03-2012, 07:33 AM
I remember two things being said when this was first brought up...

1. Remember that the "vanilla" fleet versions are taking "older" ships and bringing them up to tier 5. Gal-X, Gal-R (actually, all the TNG-Rs) Excelsior-R, etc. (the Z-store retrofits) are already tier 5, and therefore "fleet" versions...

2. There were "issues" with taking ships that have "built in powers" and making Fleet Retrofits of them. This is why there's Fleet TNG-Rs, since the Ablative, battle cloak, and saucer separations are "console based powers", same with the Armitage. Excelsior's integrated transwarp and the Gal-Xs integrated phaser lance somehow "screw up" the fleet retrofit system and therefore don't get a fleet retrofitting...

It could be that the phaser lance is considered an ability "on a par" with the 5.5-level retrofits, even though we've classed it as a 5.1 (vanilla fleet). I don't know what's up with the devs...
Yes, I'm going here. Iconic / "hero" ships, I'm talking Galaxy/Defiant/Intrepid here you TNG-era fans, get a T6 version, then ALL the hero ships (Connie, Miranda, NX, etc.) need one too. I'm a ToS fan, and proud of it. This is a themepark, let me enjoy my ride or none of us deserve one...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 12
08-03-2012, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dareau View Post
I remember two things being said when this was first brought up...

1. Remember that the "vanilla" fleet versions are taking "older" ships and bringing them up to tier 5. Gal-X, Gal-R (actually, all the TNG-Rs) Excelsior-R, etc. (the Z-store retrofits) are already tier 5, and therefore "fleet" versions...

2. There were "issues" with taking ships that have "built in powers" and making Fleet Retrofits of them. This is why there's Fleet TNG-Rs, since the Ablative, battle cloak, and saucer separations are "console based powers", same with the Armitage. Excelsior's integrated transwarp and the Gal-Xs integrated phaser lance somehow "screw up" the fleet retrofit system and therefore don't get a fleet retrofitting...

It could be that the phaser lance is considered an ability "on a par" with the 5.5-level retrofits, even though we've classed it as a 5.1 (vanilla fleet). I don't know what's up with the devs...
That is a big fat lie!! The lance has nothing to do with ship's survivability, performance or offensive sustainence(3 minute cooldown). The Lance and cloak are natural abilities of the Galaxy Dreadnought, not experiments. Since F2P started they took away the lance's accuracy, and made consoles of the ships' natural abilities. In the canon world, sauser separation is the natural abilty of the Galaxy. It is the first manuver they made in the first episode of TNG. There was no special console they had to use to make the siquence. It was made directly from the battle bridge helm. The Defiant was able to cloak from design not a special console. Special console abilities: were the cloak stolen from Romulans in TOS, the heatseeking Photon torpedo in Star Trek VI, the Phase Cloak in TNG, the Quantum Slipstream Drive in Voyager.

Every ship should be unique in some form by its natural ability. Before F2P, people asked for and extra open slot to add a console that they see fit to use, but like a con artist, cryptic sold us ships with console slot that had to be filled with the natural abilities of the ship. Who wants to fly around in a slow turning Galaxy and can't separate their suaser? Nobody, so we are forced to keep that slot filled with sauser separation so we may survive.
In the Galaxy Dreadnought, if you want to keep the cloak you also loose your extra slot. To me, the cloak is almost useless because the bonuses that come with surprise attack doesn't count for much. There is no suprise when I can hear you charge your EPW and Alpha Strike and then I hold you in place with my tractor beam to turn around and blow you away. The cloak don't have combat cloak abilities and you can't transfer it to another ship that doesn't cloak so i don't use it at all. I put a shield field generator in it's place to boost my weak shields.

Get off your freak'n high horse, Devs, and fix the fleet ship problem like the customers asked.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 231
# 13
08-03-2012, 09:10 AM
Well, I guess technically they could just patch the stats higher for those vessels with integrated abilities (Dread, Garumba, etc) just like they did with the lockbox vessels. But then again, that'd probably create a decent amount of possible lost revenue on their part, and hence the delay.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,371
# 14
08-03-2012, 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Look at the Fleet Galaxy again, its listed as a T4. It also says so on the STO homepage.
It's a T5 ship that requires a Tier 4 Ship yard on your Starbase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
That is a big fat lie!! The lance has nothing to do with ship's survivability, performance or offensive sustainence(3 minute cooldown). The Lance and cloak are natural abilities of the Galaxy Dreadnought, not experiments. Since F2P started they took away the lance's accuracy, and made consoles of the ships' natural abilities. In the canon world, sauser separation is the natural abilty of the Galaxy. It is the first manuver they made in the first episode of TNG. There was no special console they had to use to make the siquence. It was made directly from the battle bridge helm. The Defiant was able to cloak from design not a special console. Special console abilities: were the cloak stolen from Romulans in TOS, the heatseeking Photon torpedo in Star Trek VI, the Phase Cloak in TNG, the Quantum Slipstream Drive in Voyager.

Every ship should be unique in some form by its natural ability. Before F2P, people asked for and extra open slot to add a console that they see fit to use, but like a con artist, cryptic sold us ships with console slot that had to be filled with the natural abilities of the ship. Who wants to fly around in a slow turning Galaxy and can't separate their suaser? Nobody, so we are forced to keep that slot filled with sauser separation so we may survive.
In the Galaxy Dreadnought, if you want to keep the cloak you also loose your extra slot. To me, the cloak is almost useless because the bonuses that come with surprise attack doesn't count for much. There is no suprise when I can hear you charge your EPW and Alpha Strike and then I hold you in place with my tractor beam to turn around and blow you away. The cloak don't have combat cloak abilities and you can't transfer it to another ship that doesn't cloak so i don't use it at all. I put a shield field generator in it's place to boost my weak shields.

Get off your freak'n high horse, Devs, and fix the fleet ship problem like the customers asked.
Most of your complaints come from a simple mistake. What was on the TV show does not make a good game. At one stage a pair of Klingon Bird's of Prey B'Rel class attacked and disabled the Enterprise D with only one sustaining minor damage, and crewed by Ferengi. Who as a group of assault troops took the entire ship. Yet you also see the ship take an absolute pounding in some episodes, this is because the ship was only ever as strong as the plot wanted it to be. And seriously Torpedoes on the show are about 1000 times more powerful than the ones in game.

This would not be good or fair gameplay. So the ships we have in game are in no way accurate to the TV show. I remember the Enterprise D getting stuck in a time loop and blowing up every time the other ship hit it's Nacelle. Do ships even take damage when they touch? Only if you use Ramming Speed. Otherwise DS9 would be respawn city.

What the ship was previously is completely irrelevant to what it is now. The Cloak became a console so it fits the criteria of being Eligible for a Fleet version of the ship. But they decided not to make it a Fleet ship for some reason.

As for Saucer Separation, while built into the Galaxy Class of the show TNG it is not built into the T4 free Galaxy Class of the game or the Fleet version of the Galaxy Class but built into the T5 Gal-R version.

The Defiant had a Cloaking Device on loan from the Klingons and honestly if anything could be considered a console the Defiant's Cloaking Device was it. Now the Defiant Class does not have Cloaking Devices nor did they ever. it was a single ship in all of Star Fleet that had one. But yet in the game anybody who buys the T5 Defiant-R gets a Cloaking Device.

The game has to be balanced, it has to be fair to the guy in any ship. 100% balance is not going to happen in a game where there are choices. It's just not possible. Not even in Chess is there 100% Balance as the player who goes first has an advantage. If he's not as good as his opponent or squanders that advantage that doesn't make the game balanced. The thing is this game is close and that's all we can hope for. And Balance trumps Accuracy.

Perhaps the real reason is they didn't want people to have a Phaser Lance without buying the Z-Store version. Perhaps the Fleet Dreadnought would be too powerful, and nobody would have purchased the exact same ship with just an extra console.

Oh and Emission Seeking not Heat Seeking.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 857
# 15
08-03-2012, 10:05 AM
Actually the Defiant had a Cloaking device that was "On Loan" to the federation from the Romulans. It was modified to work with federation Tech.

Also the fleet ships ALL of them are T5. Its the Shipyard tier that changes from T1 to T5. Not the Tier of the ships.

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Last edited by admrenlarreck; 08-03-2012 at 10:09 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,298
# 16
08-03-2012, 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
I mean really, how many time are they going to keep selling me the Odyssey, 5 versions?
They're just making the original Odyssey (which was free) available, with no C-Store purchase required. That's a good thing.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 17
08-03-2012, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight0001 View Post
It's a T5 ship that requires a Tier 4 Ship yard on your Starbase.



Most of your complaints come from a simple mistake. What was on the TV show does not make a good game. At one stage a pair of Klingon Bird's of Prey B'Rel class attacked and disabled the Enterprise D with only one sustaining minor damage, and crewed by Ferengi. Who as a group of assault troops took the entire ship. Yet you also see the ship take an absolute pounding in some episodes, this is because the ship was only ever as strong as the plot wanted it to be. And seriously Torpedoes on the show are about 1000 times more powerful than the ones in game.

This would not be good or fair gameplay. So the ships we have in game are in no way accurate to the TV show. I remember the Enterprise D getting stuck in a time loop and blowing up every time the other ship hit it's Nacelle. Do ships even take damage when they touch? Only if you use Ramming Speed. Otherwise DS9 would be respawn city.

What the ship was previously is completely irrelevant to what it is now. The Cloak became a console so it fits the criteria of being Eligible for a Fleet version of the ship. But they decided not to make it a Fleet ship for some reason.

As for Saucer Separation, while built into the Galaxy Class of the show TNG it is not built into the T4 free Galaxy Class of the game or the Fleet version of the Galaxy Class but built into the T5 Gal-R version.

The Defiant had a Cloaking Device on loan from the Klingons and honestly if anything could be considered a console the Defiant's Cloaking Device was it. Now the Defiant Class does not have Cloaking Devices nor did they ever. it was a single ship in all of Star Fleet that had one. But yet in the game anybody who buys the T5 Defiant-R gets a Cloaking Device.

The game has to be balanced, it has to be fair to the guy in any ship. 100% balance is not going to happen in a game where there are choices. It's just not possible. Not even in Chess is there 100% Balance as the player who goes first has an advantage. If he's not as good as his opponent or squanders that advantage that doesn't make the game balanced. The thing is this game is close and that's all we can hope for. And Balance trumps Accuracy.

Perhaps the real reason is they didn't want people to have a Phaser Lance without buying the Z-Store version. Perhaps the Fleet Dreadnought would be too powerful, and nobody would have purchased the exact same ship with just an extra console.

Oh and Emission Seeking not Heat Seeking.
Don't argue with the facts. I gave examples of special console abilities from the shows and movies. Don't hate me because I didn't write the movies. Get the fair and balance out of your head because there is none when I can crack codes make my ship invincible or unstoppable.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 18
08-03-2012, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by admrenlarreck View Post
Actually the Defiant had a Cloaking device that was "On Loan" to the federation from the Romulans. It was modified to work with federation Tech.

Also the fleet ships ALL of them are T5. Its the Shipyard tier that changes from T1 to T5. Not the Tier of the ships.
When did the Feds give it back? Remember the Defiant was destroyed and rebuilt?
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 14
# 19
08-03-2012, 10:50 PM
I happen to like the Fleet Star Cruiser since I love my regular Star Cruiser so might get the Tier 5 one and it gets more hull strength and an added scinece consol very handy and I love the look. But its not vital to get a Tier 5 ship at all mine with all Tier XI components is pretty evil just a bit extra never hurts.

Its all in what you feel like spending your money on if you feel its a good purchase.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,371
# 20
08-04-2012, 07:02 AM
The First Cloaking Device was Romulan, that ship got destroyed.

The Second Cloaking Device was Klingon and that was on the Sao Paulo which got renamed to Defiant.

Needless to say the only reason the Federation where allowed to use a Cloaking device was an amendment to the treaty of Algernon which allowed the ship to have in first place.

Quote:
After the Dominion threat emerged in late-2370, a special amendment made to the Treaty of Algeron allowed the Defiant to be equipped with a Romulan cloaking device. In exchange for providing the cloaking device, the Federation agreed to share all of its Dominion intelligence with the Romulan government. Additionally, the cloak was only authorized for use in the Gamma Quadrant; although Captain Sisko violated this provision on numerous occasions. Use of the cloaking device was initially supervised by Subcommander T'Rul, although the Romulans later discontinued supervision.
Link

Cloaking was only ever part of a single Defiant.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
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