Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,047
# 31
08-22-2012, 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
vorcha refit- http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...000FEFEEA7E10/

mirror vorcha- http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57...C05E1EBA0FA1C/

fleet ktinga- http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57...61918D5560B56/

fleet vorcha- http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...07EF7164F3E09/

conclusions-

the mirror and refit vorcha have the exact same stats, and a shield mod of 1.0. though the F ktinga has a lower shield listing then the vorcha R on the shield tool tip, the actual shield hitpoints are higher. based on the shield tool tip i figure the F ktinga has a shield mod of .94579 and F vorcha has a shield mod of 1.1

but, judging by the hit points per shield facing the F ktinga has a shield mod of 1.07 and F vorcha has a shield mod of 1.09999

looks like tier 5 ships turned fleet ships are accurate, judging by my admittedly small survey sample.
Cool, thanks.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 32
08-22-2012, 05:50 AM
I have found that the displayed shield modifiers are infact incorrect too.

My friend flies a defiant reft. Not fleet version.

I fly Fleet Escort Retrofit. (Sabre)

We have the same shield capacity on each facing, despite mine showing less on the item itself. Wierd bug.

The hull values do not seem to be bugged though. The sabre does indeed lose out on some hull. I use the MAKO deflector to bridge this gap though.

So overall the Fleet Escort Retrofit more or less equals the z-store Defiant.

However as the Z-store defiant also has a fleet version I suspect that once he gets it my friend's ship will be FAR superior to mine.

Not really fair as I had to pay 2000 zen for mine and he only had to pay 2500 for his.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,577
# 33
08-22-2012, 07:15 AM
The lower tier Fleet Retrofits bugged me ever since they first appeared on Tribble. All that talk about "over 40 new ships" is quite silly when you look at the stats. In general, only Fleet Tier 5 variants (i.e. RA and VA ones) are actually worth anything, while any Retrofit of Tier 2-4 suffers from inferior shields and hull, not receiving anything to compensate for that loss.

Fleet Escort Retrofit is a good example of this strange policy. Aside from the 10th console slot the ship is inferior even to your standard RA Patrol Escort, not to mention its Fleet version, which one can buy for the exact same price as early as at Tier 1 Shipyard. And they're both priced at 20$...

I just don't get it. Is it there only to satisfy people who want their ship only for looks? If so, they're still paying 20$ for a new skin that's performing worse than anything you can get for free...

KDF suffers the most from this policy, as their Fleet ships lack most of their standard Tier 5 variants (no Kar'Fi, no Varanus, no Marauder... come on, seriously?), and instead we're getting inferior Destroyers or Flight Deck Cruisers which, aside from the 10th console, aren't anything that special, really...

And don't even get me started on Fleet Aquarius Destroyer... which is a lame joke, to say the least.

Seriously Cryptic, give those ships some bonus... I do understand the "need" to give them less HP and Shields, as they're all "older" classes, but in turn do something to compensate for that and make the ships more desirable and competitive... Higher turn-rate would be a good start, like you did with Nova, having nearly escort-like maneuverability. The Research Science Vessel has +50% Crew Regen, which isn't much, but always something. So how about more bonuses like that? Perhaps an additional Device Slot? Integrated resistance to something? Anything...?
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 260
# 34
08-27-2012, 07:07 AM
Cryptic dont seem to be getting it. I don't think anyone wants the Saber to be superior to the other T5 escorts.

That said, we being able to fly it without being at a substantial disadvantage when you have to shell out more resources to get it.


For pity's sake, the best T5 Sabre has a lower shield mod than its T2 equivalent. Insanity.

Why not, for the sake of balance, buff the turn rate by a couple of degrees and replace the shields (even to 0.9 like free escorts, including its own free variant).

If they really want to get creative, why not give it a second Lt. Cmdr ability (or even change the current one to a uni slot), but strip it of its ensign slot?

I understand a smaller ship should be less durable, though surely that would go for the defiant as well, it should have something to make it worth the substantial time, energy and zen we'll need to fly it.

Also, in regards to the argument regarding it being an older ship design, I have to say that a) its newer than the defiant by quite a leap (and about the same age as the sovereign and akira) and b) the other variants of the ship are quite recent, including the 25th C Galdius.

No matter how much I love the Andorian aesthetic of the Ushaan class, Im not going to pour my precious points to fly a ship significantly inferior to the free ship I already have, and positively laughable compared to the Fleet Patrol Escort which is easier to obtain in terms of effort.

Which is a shame, since I sense that the Kumari (or 25th century equivalent) (should they EVER get around to releasing it) will be another nine console Z-Store ship or lockbox travesty.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 46
# 35
08-27-2012, 01:05 PM
I do not understand the "need" to give these ships less HP and Shields because that type of "need" is an imaginary one and has nothing to do with game balance. What does the fantasy logic of them being "older classes" have to do with this game anyway?

The reason the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship is better is the same reason the Saber Class is worse. Balance and or profit are what decide how things are in this game. The new retrofits are not profitable the way they chose to put them at T5, so making them competitive would not motivate people to pay money for other ships or the fleet versions of these retrofits, which are just barely as good as normal T5 ships.

What I believe they should do to be fair.

1st Properly balance the new retrofits.
2nd Put T5 retrofits of the (Escort, Heavy Cruiser, Research Science Vessel, & Science Vessel) in the z-store with a console of some kind. Take the original T5 retrofits (Defiant, Galaxy, & Intrepid), and add them into the fleet ship store without a console.

So that way there is?

*Z-store T5 account wide unlocks of all retrofits with a console. (exception Excelsior)
*Fleet store (200,000 fleet credit) T5 character unlocks of all retrofits without a console. (exception Excelsior)
*Fleet version (4 ship module) character unlocks of all retrofits + normal T5 ships. (exception Excelsior)

Why is the Excelsior excluded? I have no idea....

Last edited by saiwot; 08-27-2012 at 01:07 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,984
# 36
08-27-2012, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave18193 View Post
Cryptic dont seem to be getting it. I don't think anyone wants the Saber to be superior to the other T5 escorts.

That said, we being able to fly it without being at a substantial disadvantage when you have to shell out more resources to get it.


For pity's sake, the best T5 Sabre has a lower shield mod than its T2 equivalent. Insanity.

Why not, for the sake of balance, buff the turn rate by a couple of degrees and replace the shields (even to 0.9 like free escorts, including its own free variant).

If they really want to get creative, why not give it a second Lt. Cmdr ability (or even change the current one to a uni slot), but strip it of its ensign slot?

I understand a smaller ship should be less durable, though surely that would go for the defiant as well, it should have something to make it worth the substantial time, energy and zen we'll need to fly it.

Also, in regards to the argument regarding it being an older ship design, I have to say that a) its newer than the defiant by quite a leap (and about the same age as the sovereign and akira) and b) the other variants of the ship are quite recent, including the 25th C Galdius.

No matter how much I love the Andorian aesthetic of the Ushaan class, Im not going to pour my precious points to fly a ship significantly inferior to the free ship I already have, and positively laughable compared to the Fleet Patrol Escort which is easier to obtain in terms of effort.

Which is a shame, since I sense that the Kumari (or 25th century equivalent) (should they EVER get around to releasing it) will be another nine console Z-Store ship or lockbox travesty.
the sabers and other inferior fleet ships have a better shield mod then advertized. the fleet saber has better then .9 actually

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=368941
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,780
# 37
08-27-2012, 07:28 PM
Pretty sad state of affairs if important fleet ship information available via the Shipyard is wrong. Wrong enough for people to completely write off ships, and Cryptic's done nothing to fix them.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 38
08-27-2012, 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
vorcha refit- http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...000FEFEEA7E10/

mirror vorcha- http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57...C05E1EBA0FA1C/

fleet ktinga- http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57...61918D5560B56/

fleet vorcha- http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...07EF7164F3E09/

conclusions-

the mirror and refit vorcha have the exact same stats, and a shield mod of 1.0. though the F ktinga has a lower shield listing then the vorcha R on the shield tool tip, the actual shield hitpoints are higher. based on the shield tool tip i figure the F ktinga has a shield mod of .94579 and F vorcha has a shield mod of 1.1

but, judging by the hit points per shield facing the F ktinga has a shield mod of 1.07 and F vorcha has a shield mod of 1.09999

looks like tier 5 ships turned fleet ships are accurate, judging by my admittedly small survey sample.
The shield modifier are working as intended in your screen caps. Dont look at the amount of shields on your ship but the numbers that are present on your shield equipment.

Vorcha mirror has a shield mod of 1 total is 8239

fleet ktinga has a shield mod of 0.94 which is then 7792.4 shield mod of 0.945

Issue isnt the shield modifer being broken, but where is the extra shield hp coming from and is it a bug which will be fixed?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,984
# 39
08-27-2012, 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi1701d View Post
The shield modifier are working as intended in your screen caps. Dont look at the amount of shields on your ship but the numbers that are present on your shield equipment.

Vorcha mirror has a shield mod of 1 total is 8239

fleet ktinga has a shield mod of 0.94 which is then 7792.4 shield mod of 0.945

Issue isnt the shield modifer being broken, but where is the extra shield hp coming from and is it a bug which will be fixed?
yes i know, i noted that the tool tip and actual hitpoints per facing didn't match. as far as im concerned the hitpoints i actually have are all that maters.

this tells me the ship data file has redundant entries for display and actual stats, and in the case of the shield mod they have different values. im glad i have the hitpoints i have, its more appropriate for a ship i payed $20 for. "fixing the bug", and giving the somra and saber and the like their true terrible shield mod would make them unusable trash.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 226
# 40
08-28-2012, 02:55 AM
Bear in mind your skill point investments will affect final values beyond the "stock" value of a given ship with a given shield. The discrepancy could also be caused by consoles boosting shield hit points.

The only way to be sure would be to respec a toon to have no skill points invested in shield systems etc.
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