Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 1 Stealth Detection Mechanics
08-01-2012, 02:11 AM
Something that has bothered me for some time. I do not understand how the stealth mechanics work at all, how the numbers affect stuff and such. The current GUI values are more than confusing. I mean I have the roughly idea, but cannot translate the numbers reliably to something that would give me some info like - the distance I will see cloaked ship under certain scenario.

So could someone explain me how it works ? Maybe some dev who understand the mechanics ?

There are several variables in the game:

Stealth Range
Stealth Detection Rating

Improved by:

+ Aux
+ X Starship Stealth
+ X Sensors
+ x% StealthSigh

Why must this stuff be so confusing ? If I wanted to make semi-specialized Nebula for KvF pvp, I do not even have slight idea what I'm doing, except for adding +sensors and hope for the best? When I cloak on my BoP it says something like 999999 km stealth range.

Why not change it to something more understandable?

Stealth Rating - rating of stealth at 10km, base stealth + aux + stealh
Stealth Detection Rating - rating of stealth detection at 10km, base detection + aux + sensors
Stealth Range Detection bonus - increases the max. range of sensors, thus improving the detection rating at 10 km, granted by special detection buffs / BO powers / Captain powers

Where those two values meet, you detect the target (simple math), everyone could do that roughly. Right now, for me the numbers do not give any sense.

I do not ask for reworking the mechanics, simply to change the GUI elements to something that does more sense to the player.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 91
# 2
08-01-2012, 02:22 AM
I second this. I really don't understand these mechanics.

Stealth detection rating at something like 37 then jumps up when using aux battery.
Dork - I.K.S. WeeBugger
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 3
08-01-2012, 04:25 AM
This in mindnubingly confusing. To add to confusion, they-ve added about 4800 point to the stealthstreght scale, while the whole array of visible/invisible objects appear to exist within a 300 point range.

Seems it's all built on the Kelvin temperature scale, while building it on the Celsius scale would have been more understandable. Giving a cruiser a score of 0 for detection, Sciships +5 and escorts -5. Then.

YourStealth>EnemyDetection=HeCaNottSeeYou.
YourStealth<EnemyDetection=HeCanSeeYou

From there on, it could be treated like damage resistance, with positive and negative values on both ships.(buffing and debuffing)
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,431
# 4
08-01-2012, 12:22 PM
it doesn't seem that confusing

stealth skill- improves stealth
high aux- improves stealth
cloaking device- REALLY improves stealth
MES- moderately improves stealth

sensors skill- improves detection
high aux- improves detection
neb sensor net- REALLY improves detection

these factors add up to your stealth and detection rating. if your detection rating is higher then someones stealth rating, you can see them. if your stealth rating is higher then some ones detection rating, they cant see you.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 5
08-01-2012, 12:30 PM
Also, when are stealth 'checks' made? Even a low detection chance should reveal enemies periodically if you check frequently, but this does not seem to be the case.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 6
08-01-2012, 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
it doesn't seem that confusing

stealth skill- improves stealth
high aux- improves stealth
cloaking device- REALLY improves stealth
MES- moderately improves stealth

sensors skill- improves detection
high aux- improves detection
neb sensor net- REALLY improves detection

these factors add up to your stealth and detection rating. if your detection rating is higher then someones stealth rating, you can see them. if your stealth rating is higher then some ones detection rating, they cant see you.
It is not confusing ? so tell me, at WHICH DISTANCE, you will see a cloaked target, when you have +170 sensors and 125 aux ? What has greatest impact ? Is the detection curve linear to the distance, or exponencial ? Is there even chance to reliable detect someone ? Does it even work reliably ? How often are the checks made ?

You just pointed the obvious simplest things but not what it means in game and how it works. You just used the simpleton logic...add more bonuses and you have better chance ..oh my...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 735
# 7
08-01-2012, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
it doesn't seem that confusing

stealth skill- improves stealth
high aux- improves stealth
cloaking device- REALLY improves stealth
MES- moderately improves stealth

sensors skill- improves detection
high aux- improves detection
neb sensor net- REALLY improves detection

these factors add up to your stealth and detection rating. if your detection rating is higher then someones stealth rating, you can see them. if your stealth rating is higher then some ones detection rating, they cant see you.
and different ships can have different detection base values

only 8 variables to that equation...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,431
# 8
08-01-2012, 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
It is not confusing ? so tell me, at WHICH DISTANCE, you will see a cloaked target, when you have +170 sensors and 125 aux ? What has greatest impact ? Is the detection curve linear to the distance, or exponencial ? Is there even chance to reliable detect someone ? Does it even work reliably ? How often are the checks made ?

You just pointed the obvious simplest things but not what it means in game and how it works. You just used the simpleton logic...add more bonuses and you have better chance ..oh my...
distance? oh about 3 or 4 range when your a sci ship not necessarily looking for claoked targets, in my experience. get within 1 or 2 and anyone would see you. this is something thats best not over thought. if you want to detect cloakers, simply go for broke with aux and sensers. if you want to stay hidden, crank up the aux and spec into stealth. if you see someone you see someone. you want this all graphed out nice and neat? why? if you know how to maximize your chance, just maximize it and hope someone flys close enough. the rule of thumb is if you want to accomplish something, min max as hard as you can to accomplish it. its worked for me in every other aspect of the game
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 9
08-01-2012, 09:23 PM
I do not want to min max it. I want to be efficient about it. Considering the +sensor consoles are otherwise useless, i want to know their exact impact, because sci slots are precious. Since Cryptic is selling two ships that supposedly have ability to detect cloakers they should better make sure the customers understand.

The tooltips are wrong, the system is confusing, and from my experience is more or less russian roulete than reliable detection system. Your "about" is useless. You are saying, go this road until you reach the town, when someone ask you how far it is.

I'm simple asking for consistent and understandable information how the detection works and reliable tooltips.

Last edited by dalnar83; 08-01-2012 at 09:25 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 10
08-01-2012, 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
I do not want to min max it. I want to be efficient about it. Considering the +sensor consoles are otherwise useless, i want to know their exact impact, because sci slots are precious. Since Cryptic is selling two ships that supposedly have ability to detect cloakers they should better make sure the customers understand.

The tooltips are wrong, the system is confusing, and from my experience is more or less russian roulete than reliable detection system. Your "about" is useless. You are saying, go this road until you reach the town, when someone ask you how far it is.

I'm simple asking for consistent and understandable information how the detection works and reliable tooltips.
I agree with you, most of us know to fly cloacked with max aux, but some more specific information would be definitely usefull. To be devils advocate, I do t think that's that easy to specify a distance, mainly because this involves the opponent's perception that's unknown. But with some explanations, we can kind of guess it, for a typical escort, cruiser or sci. We could calculate distances, our stealth, how that increases with distance or more exactly how perception decreases with distance and aux.

Edit: also, the less than 100% cloack that bortasqu has (98 or 96), how efficient in stealth is compared to regular cloack, meaning how much distance should we keep from an enemy ship to avoid detection.
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Last edited by trueprom3theus; 08-01-2012 at 09:56 PM.
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