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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 375
# 51
08-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
LENR is still in the theoretical stage.
actually it's in testing stages, in several different countries, by different commercial concerns and different government sponsored research. it's been past the theoretical stage for several years....except why it happens. they can duplicate the effect, but the reaction itself is still a black box. being nearly universally decried by physicists who want to believe that the standard model and theories we have now are perfect doesn't help.

it's sad when so-called scientists get religious about theories that they know can't explain everything, and have glaring flaws yet they treat them as if they are the holy truth...just because they work for most things >.>

@lilchibiclari

very old document, and the sheer tonnage is staggering, abit of extra equipment that will actually be less than what they were planning on going with doesn't seem too outrageous. though cargo sent first is great thinking, also can expose any hazards in propulsion or power systems before the live crew is sent. RTG's or advanced versions still seem safer than any type of dynamically cooled reactor.

something that maintains a steady temp regardless of exterior conditions or load is safer than something that requires cooling or else. while high temps can be achieved in the more bang per size...is it entirely necessary? power companies do that now with unsafe reactor designs...and it's worked out so well >.>

then there's required shielding for any conventional design=more weight. 2 cooling systems, a cooling medium, etc. LENR or RTG's of various and advanced designs are more practical by being simpler, less weight, and less hazardous overall. still think piezo conversion would be the best choice, no moving parts, nothing to break down....low power output and efficiency kind of blows however :\

since there's no concrete due date yet...there's still time for several of the technologies to mature. nano tech electronics themselves could completely change vessel power requirements and generation with a new gen of piezo converters, printed electronics (weight savings) solar conversion films, fuel cells, filters, catalysts, efficient motors, etc.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,329
# 52
08-19-2012, 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
has NASA or any other company or person experimented with LENR technology?
NASA has, yes, as has the US Naval Research Lab, and several scientists around the world, including George Miley (University of Illinois) and Francesco Celani, Italian National Institute of Physics or Professor Sergio Focardi from the University of Bologna.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 649
# 53
08-19-2012, 04:55 AM
wow this is all very interesting, how much power can one of these generate? Also how soon do you think these will be out, apparently a inventor named Rossi has claimed he has done it and that they have been taking orders already and the LENR called E-cat or Energy Catalyser will be out as soon as next year! Don't know if this true, Im a bit sceptic here but it will be awesome if it is true.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,592
# 54
08-19-2012, 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadspacex64 View Post
actually it's in testing stages, in several different countries, by different commercial concerns and different government sponsored research. it's been past the theoretical stage for several years....except why it happens. they can duplicate the effect, but the reaction itself is still a black box. being nearly universally decried by physicists who want to believe that the standard model and theories we have now are perfect doesn't help.

it's sad when so-called scientists get religious about theories that they know can't explain everything, and have glaring flaws yet they treat them as if they are the holy truth...just because they work for most things >.>
Yeah, Atheists do that a lot...

I suppose my comment wasn't well explained. What I meant to say was: while they can trigger the reaction on command, they're still working on figuring out how to make a functional reactor. Though in retrospect, that isn't the theoretical stage it's the prototype stage.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 649
# 55
08-19-2012, 09:38 AM
yay one step closer, another win for science and technology.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 649
# 56
08-19-2012, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
wow this is all very interesting, how much power can one of these generate? Also how soon do you think these will be out, apparently a inventor named Rossi has claimed he has done it and that they have been taking orders already and the LENR called E-cat or Energy Catalyser will be out as soon as next year! Don't know if this true, Im a bit sceptic here but it will be awesome if it is true.
Can someone answer this please.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,329
# 57
08-19-2012, 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raj011 View Post
wow this is all very interesting, how much power can one of these generate?
As far as I know, in experiments that are well-documented, not that much has been produced - excess heat of about 20% beyond what you put into it. Naturally, the commercially interested experimenters are a bit more secretive, and some may say of questionable reputation, but they claim much higher.

The existing theories to explain the phenomenon indicate that the energy density might be about 10% of that of nuclear fission reaction, measured per kilogramm of mass used in the reaction, or so I am told.

Quote:
Also how soon do you think these will be out,
Hard to say, there is too much potential money in it for people to be completely open with what they have. Rossi, however, claims that he will publish a validated report ("signed by 6 professors from 2 universities") about a 1200 degrees Celsius of heat producing, self-sustaining reactor from his lab, on September the 10th. If that is true, then expect this to be a very turbulent decade.

Some people, however, claim that Rossi is a fraud, so don't be too anxious. We'll have to wait and see.
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 375
# 58
08-19-2012, 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
Yeah, Atheists do that a lot...

I suppose my comment wasn't well explained. What I meant to say was: while they can trigger the reaction on command, they're still working on figuring out how to make a functional reactor. Though in retrospect, that isn't the theoretical stage it's the prototype stage.
i am an atheist :p it's more people do that a lot for rather simple reasons, one being they want the world to work as they understand it, no surprises...another, money. LENR devices even in this early stage of development are making waves with energy producing corporations.

would you like your livelihood yanked out from under you? similar to tobacco companies buying scientists and doctors to claim their product was safe...no different now. patents have been repeatedly blocked by so called professionals who say that because the process doesn't follow the standard model of what is currently known it's impossible >.>

and ya prototype, there a still tons they don't know, but are narrowing that down, even identical materials sometimes don't work the same :\ very touchy process to get started. which stands to reason. it's not something that could ever occur naturally, so it's something for which there are no examples or guide lines to follow.

and like any good science (at least to me) there have been explosions can't have good science without something going boom. ie: you can learn a lot from a catastrophic failure. at the very least what not to do.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,592
# 59
08-20-2012, 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadspacex64 View Post
i am an atheist :p it's more people do that a lot for rather simple reasons, one being they want the world to work as they understand it, no surprises...another, money. LENR devices even in this early stage of development are making waves with energy producing corporations.

would you like your livelihood yanked out from under you? similar to tobacco companies buying scientists and doctors to claim their product was safe...no different now. patents have been repeatedly blocked by so called professionals who say that because the process doesn't follow the standard model of what is currently known it's impossible >.>

and ya prototype, there a still tons they don't know, but are narrowing that down, even identical materials sometimes don't work the same :\ very touchy process to get started. which stands to reason. it's not something that could ever occur naturally, so it's something for which there are no examples or guide lines to follow.

and like any good science (at least to me) there have been explosions can't have good science without something going boom. ie: you can learn a lot from a catastrophic failure. at the very least what not to do.
Science is about studying nature and making observations. Writing a set of "laws" then expecting nature to follow them is absurd. God is in control of nature, we just watch his handiwork. The models used by theoretical physicists DON'T WORK!!! trying to use them to prove something is fake is a farce.

Anyways, I'm definately interested in hearing how this line of research plays out.

BTW, "identical"? not really. Similar is more like it. Ever hear about Damascus steel and why it's so good? Damascus steel is rather ordinary in it's chemical composition. Modern forging processes using the exact same alloy used for Damascus steel would give you an inferior product. The forging process for Damascus steel creates tiny Iron Carbide crystals embedded in the steel. It's these crystals that give it it's unusual properties. It's possible that LENR is somehow dependent on the internal arrangement of the atoms in the materials used.

As for the Livelyhood thing? If Exxon was to start making these they'd never need to worry about that. Seriously.... Why don't the big energy companies invest in stuff like this?
HAIL HYDRA!

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I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 60
08-20-2012, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
Seriously.... Why don't the big energy companies invest in stuff like this?
Big Bussiness hate giving away from next to nothing or free what it can charge lots of money for instead.


Money money money.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
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