Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 41
08-07-2012, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flekh View Post
Sensor Analysis is stronger than a purple Tac concole, true - but both stack linearily with all other +damage% powers, and you'll usually have around +300%(++) already, so another console or Sensor Analysis is less than 10% extra damage.
And ... you do know that temporary increases to weapon power (e.g. EPtW and batteries) do buffer power drain? Then you'll easily see the difference between running base weapon power of 125 (no problem with the tac) and ~115-120 (what you get with the sci unless you use up all your eng consoles for weapon power) - at sustained fire, that's 5-10 higher average weapon power, and ... *drumroll* usually ends up a bit closer to the 10% mark.
Throw in the tac's pet, and it's a clear win for the tac on dps. Really surprising, considering that it's actually build for that ... oh, wait.
I'll admit the difference isn't HUGE. In fact, it's very small. But yes, the Sci is at the bottom of the three Ody variants for dps. Do the math.
Sensor Analysis doesn't add on to energy consoles (these add their damage modifiers additively on the base damage of the weapon in question). It's just a flat multiplicative 33.33% all damage bonus once it reaches max stacks, and it doesn't require max stacks to very rapidly outpace the damage an extra energy console would. This isn't to mention that it boosts all damage: FBP, TBR, TB, Tach Beam, torps, beams, cannons, you name it.

Sci ships usually pay for this bonus by having two less weapon slots than your average cruiser. The Ody does not, and I can assure you to within a shadow of a doubt that if you run parser logs comparing the Tac to the Sci Ody, the latter will come out on top by an immense margin.

Last edited by shimmerless; 08-07-2012 at 02:10 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,075
# 42
08-07-2012, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
Sensor Analysis doesn't add on to energy consoles (these add their damage modifiers additively on the base damage of the weapon in question). It's just a flat multiplicative 33.33% all damage bonus once it reaches max stacks, and it doesn't require max stacks to very rapidly outpace the damage an extra energy console would. This isn't to mention that it boosts all damage: FBP, TBR, TB, Tach Beam, torps, beams, cannons, you name it.

Sci ships usually pay for this bonus by having two less weapon slots than your average cruiser. The Ody does not, and I can assure you to within a shadow of a doubt that if you run parser logs comparing the Tac to the Sci Ody, the latter will come out on top by an immense margin.
i aprove this message! no srsly...i had once a discussion about it with a fleet buddy...i thought the tactical oddy was the best choice, but i was wrong. Now i know better. Sci oddy is the best in my opinion and obviously in the opinion of my fleet buddy

sometimes people seem to forgett that all oddy's have universal ltcmdr...a tactical in that slot and bam, you should have the highest DD cruiser in game. (appart from any KDF cruiser^^)
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 08-07-2012 at 02:32 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 224
# 43
08-07-2012, 02:28 PM
Quoted from another:
I use FAW2.
While it does increase my damage on say, 2-4 targets, on large groups, it's not about the damage.
If you see me using FAW on a large group of, say, 6 spheres... it's to keep them aggro'd on me and not you.
With max threat and decent DPS, it does just that.

I'm built to tank. Keeping things shooting at me is my job.
FAW helps us tanks do that very well.

So, next time you're giggling about it, keep in mind, that cruiser in a beam boat FAW'ing a large group is doing it to take a bullet for you.[/quote]

My reply:
Yea and I fly a cruiser that can dps and hold aggro. Those silly little cruisers end up poppinig.

YOU go ahead and let your weapns fire all over the place hoping to keep aggro.

Let the real cruiser men/women do their work.

"Fire at will" is not an effective aggro tool.
I find that the innate aggro buff coupled with a solid dps output allows a cruiser to hold aggro against a solo target or maybe 2 and survive...allowing the escorts or dps ships to finish them off quite nicely.

NOONE TAKES A BULLET FOR ME.........With my hull at nearly 50% resists for all damage and well over 50% for kinetic..and my buffs kick in I am pretty much assured i can take a beating better then siome beam boat who thinks "FIRE AT WILL" will save me .
Napoleon's final defeat came at Waterloo. Must've been embarrassing. You're the f'ing emperor. You conquered all of Europe, only to lose in a place with a stupid name like Waterloo. Or Watergate, or Whitewater. Note to politicans: Stay on land.

Last edited by adabisi; 08-07-2012 at 02:32 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 44
08-07-2012, 02:49 PM
I run an 8 beam boat on my eng in a Gal-X, FAW works very well to aggro on so many things. If your build is right and you know what you're doing, you can aggro an entire wave from Fleet alert, an entire group of spheres, two cubes, or whatever is currently shooting at your team and hold every one of them off while your team mates smack them around. Just putting this out there, not really on topic.

On topic however, I'm thinking of slightly modifying Hakaishin's cannon Gal-X and turning it into a Quad phaser, 2 DHC, 1 Quantum torp, 4 turret mobile weapons platform. Together with CSV and Torp Spread, you could do nearly the same damage as an escort (Though still less due to tac boff abilities not being as strong).

Coupled with using a Tac in the Gal-X, if you just take your time and use the slowness of the ship to your advantage and keep your nose straight (Just point nose and shoot while going 1/4 impulse), you should be a very vicious cruiser, and can still take any heat that comes your way.

This would only work in PVE of course, PVP this would just be suicide.

[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 45
08-07-2012, 03:08 PM
OP, as others have said, the Cruiser is not going to match a well built Escort for DPS... since that is not its intended purpose. There is a lot of build advice here, and in other threads.

In my experience, the Cruiser does one thing exceptionally well... and that is to take damage (No I am not saying that cruisers should be the sacrificial lamb). This is useful as it allows escorts (having glass jaws) more time to deliver their punch. This can be considered a support role.. I personally don't look at it that way. I look at it as the right job for the right ship.

If you want to kill something in 3 seconds, then you really want to be in an escort. However, a cruiser (IMHO) is an invaluable asset in any engagement as a tank.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 46
08-07-2012, 03:14 PM
FAW is for clearing mines , fighter swarms etc
don't count on it as a battle winner
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 47
08-07-2012, 03:18 PM
Cruisers will never be able to do the damage a good tacscort can. Never, not in the current state of mechanics in the game.

Besides if they could, there wouldnt be any need for escort classes anymore!!!

But, I've managed to output a nice 600-900K damage in matches with my Recluse Tac without using a single energy weapon! :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 48
08-07-2012, 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
Sensor Analysis doesn't add on to energy consoles (these add their damage modifiers additively on the base damage of the weapon in question). It's just a flat multiplicative 33.33% all damage bonus once it reaches max stacks, and it doesn't require max stacks to very rapidly outpace the damage an extra energy console would. This isn't to mention that it boosts all damage: FBP, TBR, TB, Tach Beam, torps, beams, cannons, you name it.

Sci ships usually pay for this bonus by having two less weapon slots than your average cruiser. The Ody does not, and I can assure you to within a shadow of a doubt that if you run parser logs comparing the Tac to the Sci Ody, the latter will come out on top by an immense margin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
i aprove this message! no srsly...i had once a discussion about it with a fleet buddy...i thought the tactical oddy was the best choice, but i was wrong. Now i know better. Sci oddy is the best in my opinion and obviously in the opinion of my fleet buddy

sometimes people seem to forgett that all oddy's have universal ltcmdr...a tactical in that slot and bam, you should have the highest DD cruiser in game. (appart from any KDF cruiser^^)
Damn, now I will actually have to test it, instead on relying on second-hand information. *sigh* RSV vs MAC should be a decent test, if I can get both to same base power level and run same levels of EPtW ... 'not going to spent 50$ on a flying brick anytime soon. Using only beams, the RSV should come out far ahead if you're right.
Okay, off to T'Kanis, looking for Elite Cubes ... well, later.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 440
# 49
08-07-2012, 05:29 PM
I run a sci oddy on my fed and the equiv bortas'qu on my klink, imo right now as cruisers go they are the best for my playstyle since I got them for the bonus to shield power and the higher your shield power the better they resist the damage, that and im already maxed on weapon power consistantly.

For my oddy I run 2x AP BA's, 1x Photon and 1x Quantum for Fore, for Aft I run 3x AP BA's and 1x Quantum (on the bort I run the Bio-neural warhead instead of the extra photon)

For abilities (same for both the oddy and bort), when looking at stations:
Lt. Comm Uni (using engi): EP2Weap 1, EP2Weap 2 and EP2Shield 3
Ensign Uni (using tac): Tac Team 1
Lt Tac: Torp Spread 1, High Yield 2
Com Engi: Engi Team 1, RSP 1, Aux2Struc 2 and Warp Plasma 3
Lt Sci: Sci Team 1 and HE 2

Click Here to view my current Skill Tree Setup
(same on both the Fed and KDF)

For the oddy consoles:
Rule 62 Multipurpose Combat Console, Point Defense System, Enhanced Plasma Manifold, Work Bees, Chevron Separation, Aquarius Escort, Theta Radiation Vent, Graviton Pulse Generator and 2x AP Mag Regulator.

For the bort consoles:
Graviton Pulse Generator, Magnetometric Generator, Point Defense System, Subspace Jumper, Subspace Snare, HoH'SuS BoP, Disruptor Auto Cannon, Theta Radiation Vent and 2x AP Mag Regulator.

Devices on both are 2x Satellite Turrets, Subspace Field Modulator and Red Matter Capacitor.

For main gear on the each ie the shields, engine and deflector I run the full M.A.C.O on the oddy and the full KHG sets on the bort both MK XII respectivly.

When it comes down to flying and keeping on target I fly slow since I have my throttle on my mouse wheel and adjust speed as needed depending on the target at the time i.e. is in .05 increments instead of the default .25, this gives me more finer throttle control when I need to come about to fire a volly of torps then get back to broadsiding. (almost forgot to add: when turning I don't keep my throttle at static, I rock the ship by quickly adjusting the throttle, this helps to turn to face/broadside faster)
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The opinions expressed in my posts are my own views and do not reflect on any other entity(s) or person(s) I may or may not represent at the time.

Last edited by th3xr34p3r; 08-19-2012 at 07:11 AM. Reason: adding further info on build / typing corrections
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 201
# 50
08-07-2012, 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adabisi View Post
My reply:
Yea and I fly a cruiser that can dps and hold aggro. Those silly little cruisers end up poppinig.

YOU go ahead and let your weapns fire all over the place hoping to keep aggro.

Let the real cruiser men/women do their work.

"Fire at will" is not an effective aggro tool.
I find that the innate aggro buff coupled with a solid dps output allows a cruiser to hold aggro against a solo target or maybe 2 and survive...allowing the escorts or dps ships to finish them off quite nicely.

NOONE TAKES A BULLET FOR ME.........With my hull at nearly 50% resists for all damage and well over 50% for kinetic..and my buffs kick in I am pretty much assured i can take a beating better then siome beam boat who thinks "FIRE AT WILL" will save me .
I don't "hope" to keep aggro. I just do.

FAW IS an effective aggro tool when used right. Especially for us Engineers. We don't have many options.
And I'm not referring to 1 or 2 targets. I don't rely on FAW for those.
When I'm holding aggro on entire swarms on ships in fleet actions, so that the tacs can unload without risk... that's my job, and FAW allows me to do it very well.
And, the way the innate threat skill works, FAW is needed to maintain the aggro on 15+ ships all at once.

While many of the cruisers you see may pop (most I see, do too)...
Please don't make assumptions about me or my gameplay.
I did not make any towards you.
-------------------------
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]

"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
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