Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 1 [acc]x3
08-15-2012, 06:06 AM
hey guys, I have a question.

usually I would just dive in, and buy the stuff to test out, but now I would like to ask about the [acc]x3 things.
many say these are the best, and I tend to agree, just from general knowledge.
mostly I play STFs, so the question is for that.

if I buy an [acc]x2 weapon, would it be better than the [borg] proc? I know [acc]x3 is the king, but I would not buy it, without testing x2, and even those are not cheap (though not so expensive either, one day of dili grinding).

I know that the [borg] gives me around +100-500 DPS depending the length of the game, but this is not so much, so would [acc]x2 grant me more than that?

I am a total noob in this department, my build is based on more trial and error than advices and reading (though I did my share, but not about this topic).

thx

edit: I want to change DHCs, and I do not know if combatlog parsers count the [borg] proc as different as from energy weapons, or they just simply add it to the projectile dmg, which would mean, that my estimate of 500 DPS from the proc could be more (though that is the max I have seen so far)
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 2
08-15-2012, 06:29 AM
You do not need acc in PVE. Most NPCs fly at very low speed thus their defence value is low and you never miss. Acc is purely PvP stat in current STO.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,498
# 3
08-15-2012, 07:04 AM
Go with what dalnar83 said.

Stick to your Borg weapons.

And are you having problems in PVE? I ask because you used a DPS figure. That's a fairly good sign that things may not be going well, or that a person just feels they aren't going well.

Or are you just on a quest to maximize your effectiveness in the game?

Somewhere on here you can get assistance for any of those things.

EDIT: Do yourself a great big favor and delete that parser. It isn't helping you.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 4
08-15-2012, 07:51 AM
hokay, I was just curious, because all the forums and everything is filled with how awesome [acc]x3 is, and how it is the messiah of proc and things.

I am content with my build, I just always try to improve upon myself, and exploring territories, that I am not familiar with ([acc]x3) is a logical way to go
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 5
08-15-2012, 08:03 AM
Unless you're fabulously wealthy and have nothing else to buy, don't bother dude. I run Borg stuff in PvP all the time (I've ran Mk X greens before), [Acc]x3s are pricey solely because they're on paper the best -consistent- damage modifiers. They're only for serious mode min-maxers.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,075
# 6
08-15-2012, 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
You do not need acc in PVE. Most NPCs fly at very low speed thus their defence value is low and you never miss. Acc is purely PvP stat in current STO.
thats true, 100% agree...for stf's i [borg] mk XII are best, no doubt. I have a set of ACCx2 critH/D MKXII for PVP and non borg stuff, ACCx3 i can't afford, or i don't want to.

For ground (there is no ACC) i tend to use borg weapons or the sonic XII for everything, even though the KB3 modifier is nice sometimes.
Go pro or go home
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# 7
08-15-2012, 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
hey guys, I have a question.

usually I would just dive in, and buy the stuff to test out, but now I would like to ask about the [acc]x3 things.
many say these are the best, and I tend to agree, just from general knowledge.
mostly I play STFs, so the question is for that.
As others have mentioned the prohititive cost and the relatively moderate defense of NPC targets (you will rarely have a difficult time hitting them) means you can skip ACCx3 and stick with Borg, Fleet or even MK XI/XII purples off of the exchange (with other mods).


The reason they are prized, for PvP, is that being able to hit the target is critical.

On top of this extra ACC is never "wasted" (which is something of a misnomer, as extra Critical Hit, Severity nor extra Damage are ever really "wasted" either).

When you have higher ACC than your target's defense that difference between the two gets put through a formula to grant "Accuracy overflow" which grants a Critical Hit and Severity bonus depending on the size of the difference.


However, it's relatively rare that you will actually be in a situation with such a gap between your ACC and the Target's defense (as even just moving at the slowest speed possible grants something like 50% bonus defense).


Now if you had something like dual tractor beams or other methods of reducing the target's defense you would probably be able to rack up some impressive critical damage through overflow - but it tends to be rare.

I've even tested against "immobile" borg structures and either they are immune to ACC overflow or they are granted a defense bonus even though they are technically immobile because with 2x ACC DHCs, 9 Ranks in Starship Targeting and the Accurate Captain trait - I was unable to notice any improvement in spikes, overall DPS or critical hit percentages (averaged out) in my combat logs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
And are you having problems in PVE? I ask because you used a DPS figure. That's a fairly good sign that things may not be going well, or that a person just feels they aren't going well...

EDIT: Do yourself a great big favor and delete that parser. It isn't helping you.
This seems an odd position.

DPS and combat logs are an important method of comparing different build loadouts vs. one another.

They don't tell the whole story, but they tell more of the story than you would have without parsing your logs.

You can measure your average DPS over the course of an entire encounter and with a parsing program like ACT you can look at the spikes within that overall for specific combats and how much damage you put out in any particular combat.

It's certainly better to have people looking at their logs and getting a general idea of what their ship is doing, as opposed to people who remain purposefully uninformed and obliviously indignant while claiming they "do good damage".


I can't imagine what benefit there is to encouraging people to have less knowledge about their ship's capabilities.

Last edited by ussultimatum; 08-15-2012 at 03:23 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,498
# 8
08-15-2012, 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
As others have mentioned the prohititive cost and the relatively moderate defense of NPC targets (you will rarely have a difficult time hitting them) means you can skip ACCx3 and stick with Borg, Fleet or even MK XI/XII purples off of the exchange (with other mods).


The reason they are prized, for PvP, is that being able to hit the target is critical.

On top of this extra ACC is never "wasted" (which is something of a misnomer, as extra Critical Hit, Severity nor extra Damage are ever really "wasted" either).

When you have higher ACC than your target's defense that difference between the two gets put through a formula to grant "Accuracy overflow" which grants a Critical Hit and Severity bonus depending on the size of the difference.


However, it's relatively rare that you will actually be in a situation with such a gap between your ACC and the Target's defense (as even just moving at the slowest speed possible grants something like 50% bonus defense).


Now if you had something like dual tractor beams or other methods of reducing the target's defense you would probably be able to rack up some impressive critical damage through overflow - but it tends to be rare.

I've even tested against "immobile" borg structures and either they are immune to ACC overflow or they are granted a defense bonus even though they are technically immobile because with 2x ACC DHCs, 9 Ranks in Starship Targeting and the Accurate Captain trait - I was unable to notice any improvement in spikes, overall DPS or critical hit percentages (averaged out) in my combat logs.





This seems an odd position.

DPS and combat logs are an important method of comparing different build loadouts vs. one another.

They don't tell the whole story, but they tell more of the story than you would have without parsing your logs.

You can measure your average DPS over the course of an entire encounter and with a parsing program like ACT you can look at the spikes within that overall for specific combats and how much damage you put out in any particular combat.

It's certainly better to have people looking at their logs and getting a general idea of what their ship is doing, as opposed to people who remain purposefully uninformed and obliviously indignant while claiming they "do good damage".


I can't imagine what benefit there is to encouraging people to have less knowledge about their ship's capabilities.
Please don't be dense. I never encouraged anyone to have less knowledge about their ship.

You encourage people to have misleading information by pushing dps numbers. The single most useless contrived number there could be.

And if you don't know how useless a figure that dps number he had was, your hopeless.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.

Last edited by thissler; 08-15-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 9
08-15-2012, 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
Please don't be dense. I never encouraged anyone to have less knowledge about their ship.
Unfortunately, that seems to be exactly what you are doing.

How can they get a rough reading on how much of a spike they are capable of without using a parser?

Should they take screen shots and count the yellow numbers on the screen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
You encourage people to have misleading information by pushing dps numbers. The single most useless contrived number there could be.
According to you.

Again, you can take a look at DPS numbers averaged out, you can set ACT to manage encounters that end after 3s, you can take a look at individual spikes and you can test different weapon loadouts or BOFF combinations to get a rough reading on what your overall damage dealing capabilities look like in different circumstances.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
And if you don't know how useless a figure that dps number he had was, your hopeless.
Is it time for insults already?

Without something like a combat parser how could you determine how different weapon modifiers even compare against each other, such as ACC, CrtH or BORG?


I had ACT introduced to me by a few Sad Pandas I had the extreme pleasure of grouping with, they certainly didn't find it useless.

I'm not saying it's the be all end all of ship discussions, but it's definitely a good place to start to get an idea of what different captains, ship classes, weapon types, procs, etc. are doing.


I'm not sure where your grudge is against DPS parsings stems from, care to elaborate?

Last edited by ussultimatum; 08-15-2012 at 07:40 PM.
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Posts: 1,498
# 10
08-15-2012, 07:42 PM
I don't know where your belief in dps numbers comes from, but it comes across as profoundly ignorant.
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